For muffinman [Archive] - Chat Cheaters

crissy

11-10-2006, 03:16 PM

both are such pussy names. Get it right! More like fuc.k off. You both were probably cheated on because you are such self loathing control freaks that go limp in the sack the moment your pants drop. Both of your women went looking for greener grass, ever wonder what the reason was you couldn't satisfy them? As far as elaingayla -- Well sweetie your as two face as most cheaters who try to justify the means to an end. Your no better than any other cheat. You can say there is no justification for cheating all you want, but didn't you just post in here that after finding out about your H, you had a fling of your own. Another wrong don't make it right.

Surviving Infidelity --- Tell the truth about the site ---There are protected forums for both the cheated and the cheaters. Even a forum for those who are going through reconciliation. The moderator actually moderates there and can actually see when someone comes on there with motives to hurt and not heal. The wayward site allows the poster to decide whether or not they are ready to receive advice from people like their partners, people who have been hurt by actions like the poster. At least in that site you will get real truthful advice whether you are a wayward or busted spouse.

Deeply scared was smart to toss you and marcus out. Funny months ago I found marcus's profile on the site, I pm'd and asked him if it was him. He denied it, but looks like ole marcus lies about alot of ****. Not one single one of you actually give a **** about any poster that comes here. This site use to be half way decent. Now you attack anyone. IE got a post from a poster named Zoe that she had sent me a PM. You attacked her by posting whats a matter Zoe not something you can post for all of us. She wasn't a cheater, she suspected her bf of cheating on her. She hasn't posted since, probably because of fear of being bashed for nothing.

Maybe your so cruel to people like chealse and myself because on here your able to say all the cruel hateful things you want and get away with it. I'm sure half of you only bs on here that you treat the partners you stayed with like you say you do. That old saying, "It's cheaper to keep her," didn't come from no where. Alamony and childsupport sure can be a *****.

Skirtchaser

11-10-2006, 03:27 PM

my dear crissy, evidently you havent read my posts either. I am not bitter nor am I here getting over a cheater. Check it out. Then you will know why I am here.
As for you I know you want attention. Maybe that's why you post the things you do on here is to get that attention. We already know your a cheater, are you on here looking for new territory?
I don't cheat, I never have, My Texas Babe doesnt either. So your little stabs dont pang a bit with me.You just have to have attention any way you can get it crissy. Maybe we should pity you more and be more kind to you.:p
I know Markus will feel all empty inside and remorseful after reading your last post. You poor poor lil girl.:cool:

tomasingm

11-10-2006, 03:59 PM

I am still wating for my PM...........:D :cool: ;) You didn't respond to me I am assuming that I must have done something to you in a bad way, or should I say good in a bad way. ....You so want me..........You want any man who is still non-pussified that will treat you the way you should be treated. Your husband keeps taking you back and you know this, he is too much of a weenie for you. You need a man with a back bone that will treat you like the little ***** you want to be treated like, dominance in and out of the bedroom. You dont want to be respected you want to have a man have his way with you and abuse you on multiple levels. That is why you can't let go of your guy friend........You need a man that will throw you on the bed and rock your world, you do not want to make love, you want to be f-u-c-ked. Surviving Infidelity is filled with women like your self who are so lost in their fake world they can not come to grips to what they are. They are selfish pleasure seeking freaks, hell if they lived in any other nation that permitted it they would be working in a red light district. It is okay. Maybe you should stay in surviving infidelity there are probably more people there that you can relate to. The Wayside section is filled with women that claim they need TLC, but the only TLC they really want is Throbbing-Large-C-Ock, so lets quit playing, quit lying the sooner you come to grips, the happier and easier life will be. There is nothing wrong with being a f-uck-doll as long as you are using protection. I'll be waiting.....

You want it, you love it, you need it, admit it, stop kidding yourself........and PM me....

tillymint

11-10-2006, 04:19 PM

I havent been around for a while cause I've been trying to work through my own issues.

but I was really upset to see how a lot of people seem to be coming on here and abusing each other..

This was, and is still is in the main, a great site..

For whatever reason, we have all found this site because we are or were hurting, and it costs nothing to be nice to people..

If you really don't agree with somebody's actions.. fine... i understand freedom of speech and opinion, but can this not be put forward in a more compassionate and less abusive, offensive way ? (Not referring to just this thread, but in general)

Just my thoughts, and I really dont want to offend anybody :)

Till x

crissy

11-10-2006, 04:34 PM

tillymint

11-10-2006, 04:49 PM

Chrissy,

Wasnt singleing anybody out.. was just a general observation :)

Tilly x

Skirtchaser

11-10-2006, 05:26 PM

Tilly, it all started with someone coming on this site that had cheated, and seemed to be trying to justify the reasons they cheated. Then they start posting people who have been cheated on here and imply the affairs may be their fault. That's what caused the uproar. No justification, no vindication.
This site is for the abused, not the abuser. The cheater that is.

tillymint

11-10-2006, 05:46 PM

crissy

11-10-2006, 05:48 PM

This site can be viewed in many different ways. Detecting Infidelity and preventing it. To the cheater this site can offer insight on how to prevent going forward and making a poor choice and preventing it from happening again. Like I posted in my very first post, I've been cheated on and now have cheated as well. In so many posts that I have read, some even cheat after they find out they've been wronged. Revenge or whatever you want to call it. This is an open forum, you should understand that and respect that it is free to all who need help or advice. JMO

Skirtchaser

11-10-2006, 06:01 PM

I was one of the many that was taking your side Tilley. I posted to your partner. I tried to be quite frank with him. I do not lie, I read each situation as I see it from past families I have dealt with through the same problems. This is where I form my advice from Tilley. Some of us here are not getting over situations, Some of us here are here try to help the people who are devasted by dirty deeds of others. I am not here to reform the cheaters. I am here to console the cheated.
And for the unkind things crissy said about ElaineGayla, may ur t.its rot off crissy.

elainegayla

11-10-2006, 06:54 PM

Gee, Crissy. I don't remember attacking you personally, and by name. Sorry if I did. I may have been having a bad day. I do remember recently asking for your input to HELP me and you never posted back. I thought we were here to help people. I have a PM from you telling me how much you value my opinion and how I have helped people by being "up front and honest".

I don't try to attack indiviuals. I do disagree with opinions of individuals. I make it no secret that I hate cheaters. Considering this site's reason for being here, I think its a good forum to express that. I don't go to cheater websites and attack them. I have made it pretty clear I'm no expert on anything and that I am no shining example.

On the other hand, you ask for opinions. You need to know that people are not always going to tell you what you want to hear or even in a nice way. Not everyone agrees with me about stuff I say. I don't expect them to. Sometimes things I hear that piss me off end up sinking in later and actually end up helping me.

People come here to vent. When I talked about my affair, I knew people would vent about that. I knew I was going to get negative feedback and I did. I guess it didn't bother me because I agreed with them. I knew it was wrong and I already had ended it. My husband knew the day I left the house the first time to see my lover where I was going and he told me to do what I had to do. I didn't lie and deceive. I told him flat out, our marriage was over as far as I was concerned, I already was seeing a divorce lawyer (as was he) and we were just waiting til after Christmas to tell the kids and have him move out. He ended our marriage by cheating 10 years...our entire marriage. His therapist said I was in this marriage by myself. I guess since my husband said it was okay, I didn't feel badly at the time. Really, I still don't on his behalf. But I do think it was wrong morally. The damage is to me. And I do expect people to say their peace and I'm okay with that. I don't think I'd come here and respect these people if they didn't.

If you want agreement, go to that other site. If you want the input and perspective on people that have been betrayed no matter how bad it makes you feel, come here.

I've been to that other site and have been spitting mad about the stuff I read. Actually, I think they ran me off about a year ago. They attacked my posts. I just stopped going there and posting.

Skirtchaser

11-10-2006, 07:41 PM

well put elaine. and you are the shining star here. Thank you.
As for the attack on you that crissy did in the other post, For Muffin,
I think crissy is a stupid wh.ore looking for sympathy and trying to excuse what she did. I resent what she posted about you Elaine. It was totally uncalled for. She doesnt deserve the attention she is getting in these post.
She came on here and attacked you, Muffinman, Markus and myself like she was something worthy of a man's respect and love. She is not.
You really are a pitiful excuse crissy.

crissy

11-10-2006, 08:06 PM

would say we do that on this site. Place warnings about how we are too delicate and hurt and confused to hear from the cheaters etc. But obviously we are stronger then them and don't need to be protected. Plus, its too much damn fun running them off.

Elaine- This is a paragragh from one of your recent posts. I'm been singled out, trashed, and called every name in the book by some because I tried to justify my affair due to the fact that I felt neglected, unloved, and abandoned. I didn't get caught, I came clean after coming to this site. I sought counseling after one of suckerfrees posts, and tried reconcilation reading Tillys posts. Point being I sought help because I didn't understand what or why this happened. Not trying to be hateful to you, I just don't see any difference in the justification that's allowed to some and why others are thrashed so. Married is married, cheating is cheating. Would it not be considered cheating if I had told my H that I wanted a divorce prior to my affair? If that was the case then I'd be resolved, I've been telling my H for years I wanted a divorce. Now the ?, why didn't I just file, leave, and find someone else? Fear! I became one of those women who's entire life revolves around their H. I even came to the point that because he is so contolling I would ask permission to spend our money, leave the house, or not even capable of making the smallest decision without his final sayso. I lost my identity, my self esteem, and 12 yrs of my life. Fear is cripiling, it can cause you to lie down and take almost anything without fighting. If you asked me for help I didn't see it, sorry. I get that most don't like what I say, I can even take alot of the crap I get back. But if I didn't care what people think, value their advice, or respect their opinions, then I would have been ran off long ago. I have just as much right to be here as the next person. I may have cheated, but I still feel the triggers more often then I care to admit on my own personal pain. I know what it feels like to walk in on the man you love, promised your life to; banging the 18 yr old waitress from Shoneys on your 800 thread cnt sheets. Personally I hope my tits don't rot off (That was classy).

Skirtchaser

11-10-2006, 08:21 PM

I apologize for making such a statement to one with "no class." They aren't that big anyway. Wouldnt take too much rot for them to be gone. ****. :cool:

Tawnee1969

11-10-2006, 08:36 PM

:eek:

and how do you know how big they are?????!!!!!!:D :p

Skirtchaser

11-10-2006, 08:52 PM

I do Tawnee, I have depth perception. :p

crissy

11-10-2006, 09:14 PM

Skirt,

I guess the rotting tits comment is because you know I have cancer. Hateful people like you are no better then cheats, killers, liars, and thiefs. We all get judged in the end. Whether you're a believer or not.

MuffinMan

11-10-2006, 09:45 PM

Dude she is so into you. You should be Mr. OM #2. As soon as hubby gets re-deployed, it'll be the whole "he is not here for me, I deserve to be happy, blah blah blah." The myspace turns on, the panties drop, and the beaver gets pumped. And then she starts posting again how bad she feels, how a good wife and mother she is, life is hard, blah blah blah. ;) :D

Hell, I'm single right now,

Crissy, I'll be there for you. :cool: You deserve to be happy. :cool:

LMFAO!!!! You it very well about the panties dropping and the beaver gets pumped...cuz thats exactly how it is, I bet she thinks its a beautiful encounter.

MuffinMan

11-10-2006, 10:12 PM

both are such pussy names. Get it right! More like fuc.k off.

No, YOU get it right. I never pm'd you EVER.

You both were probably cheated on because you are such self loathing control freaks that go limp in the sack the moment your pants drop.

You wish. See Crissy, you are the type of woman that makes guys like me. I was the most loving husband on the face of the earth. I treated her like a queen. And as far as your lame attempt about going limp...its just the opposite...I get hard when the wind blows. But nice try.

But aside from that...NEVER was I a control freak. I still am not a control freak, my wife is just now expected to ACT like a wife.

But the fact that you would say such things, re-enforces my position on cheaters. This is you in true form. Making excuses for cheating because you are IN FACT a cheater. You can't handle the idea that you are a betrayer...betrayed a man who is risking his life in Iraq, so you try to blame him for your wretchedness. You truly are pathetic, and with each of your posts....you prove it.

Do keep it up...we love being proven right.

Both of your women went looking for greener grass, ever wonder what the reason was you couldn't satisfy them?

Once again..putting the blame on the faithful spouse. Is that what happened with you? You obviously blame your husband for your cheating.
Cheaters are worthless, selfish people...plain and simple. I could make my wife cum with the best of them...she is just fickle...like you.

Nice try at trying to bring us down though. Your posts show you have no remorse as a cheater and ALL you do is make excuses for your cheating and others, even though you claim that is not the case.

You just proved yourself a worthless wench with no morals and remorse for any pain you cause.

As far as elaingayla -- Well sweetie your as two face as most cheaters who try to justify the means to an end. Your no better than any other cheat. You can say there is no justification for cheating all you want, but didn't you just post in here that after finding out about your H, you had a fling of your own. Another wrong don't make it right.

You are correct, 2 wrongs dont make a right. But she is a hell of alot more right than you will ever be.

Surviving Infidelity --- Tell the truth about the site ---There are protected forums for both the cheated and the cheaters. Even a forum for those who are going through reconciliation. The moderator actually moderates there and can actually see when someone comes on there with motives to hurt and not heal. The wayward site allows the poster to decide whether or not they are ready to receive advice from people like their partners, people who have been hurt by actions like the poster. At least in that site you will get real truthful advice whether you are a wayward or busted spouse.

LOL...bullsh!t, but you are entitled to your entitlement princess opinion.

There are people in there that admit that they want to reconcile, but cannot dump their part-time pen!s/puzzy...like you.

And what advice do they get? Do they get advice like, "you need to break all contact with the OM/OW"? No...they get a shoulder rub from the other cheats.
One moron in there told a Wayward Spouse(nice way of saying "Worthless Cheater") that they should spice up their sex life with their betrayed spouse by doing the same acts sexually that they did with the people they cheated WITH.....can you believe it?? Well...I suppose you could.

This site use to be half way decent. Now you attack anyone.

Not true at all...we attack you and people like you. I thought you were ok even for a cheater when you first started posting...but then, all you started doing was making excuses for why you cheated...then you started insulting betrayed spouses here by trying to tell them it was THEIR fault that their spouse cheated on them. Ya thats it..take someone in pain because of someone like you, and tell them its their fault. Such bullsh!t.
Don't come in here and justify your cheating. This is a site for people that have been wronged by people like you.

IE got a post from a poster named Zoe that she had sent me a PM. You attacked her by posting whats a matter Zoe not something you can post for all of us.

No attack there...just simply a question. Your cerebral capacity to analyze what was written is for...well....sh!t.

She wasn't a cheater

Show me where I said she was.

, she suspected her bf of cheating on her. She hasn't posted since, probably because of fear of being bashed for nothing.

If she isn't a worthless cheater like you, she has nothing to worry about.
You don't make a whole lot of sense.

Maybe your so cruel to people like chealse and myself because on here your able to say all the cruel hateful things you want and get away with it. I'm sure half of you only bs on here that you treat the partners you stayed with like you say you do. That old saying, "It's cheaper to keep her," didn't come from no where. Alamony and childsupport sure can be a *****.

Your partially right. I bottle up my true anger and emotions so that my kids do not see it.
And she wouldn't get alimony where I live, and I can afford child support no problem. But I'm a man, I don't run from my responsibilities. Paying child support isn't enough. I'll be damned if a cheater is going to keep me from my beloved children on a daily basis.

See, I have learned something, it is more important to me to be a full-time dad than to worry about whether my wife will cheat again.
My wife took the most perfect and loving husband and ruined it. And THAT is why I cannot stomach women like you.
Your husband doesn't deserve to worry about what man his wife is spreading her legs for while he is staring down the barrel of an AK-47. The last thing he need while he is risking his life overseas is visions in his head of you bobbing your head up and down on another man's d!ck.

You are a worthless wh0re...do I say that because you cheat?...no, not at all...I say that because you already admitted that you cannot let go of your other man.
So until you can let go of him, do not come in here looking for sympathy...and NEVER come in here trying to justify your cheating. You just make yourself look like a fickle entitlement princess with no remorse or moral values.

MuffinMan

11-10-2006, 10:22 PM

For whatever reason, we have all found this site because we are or were hurting, and it costs nothing to be nice to people..

If you really don't agree with somebody's actions.. fine... i understand freedom of speech and opinion, but can this not be put forward in a more compassionate and less abusive, offensive way ? (Not referring to just this thread, but in general)

Just my thoughts, and I really dont want to offend anybody :)

Till x

No offense taken tilly. You have to have been here a while to understand our contempt for Crissy. See, I used to chat with crissy quite normally...sharing a laugh here and there...even though I despise cheaters, women and men. But then she started showing her true colors. She tried to put the blame on alot of people who were cheated on and in doing so she was justifying her own cheating. And not just justifying it, downright excusing it.

Even though there may be rare instances, like physical abuse, that might slightly justify straying, I don't believe for one minute that being cheated on is the betrayed spouses/partners' fault. Crissy thinks otherwise and has insulted people in here who have been betrayed...as evidence at her lame attempt to insult me in this thread.

So even though she is a cheater...I cut her alot of slack in the beginning. Then she started insulting people by blaming the victim for the infidelity.

THAT is when we started to "attack" her.

So tell me, and I won't attack you if you say you are a cheater, are you the cheater, or the cheated on? If you say you have been cheated on, then I'd like to pose a few questions to you to see what your response is...and don't be scared.
The only people that deserve a real bashing here are crissy, chelsea, and maybe just a couple others.

MuffinMan

11-10-2006, 10:23 PM

To Tilly and any others that I may have offended. I am sorry. This seems to have turned into something personal between myself and few other posters. I should not have taken this public and kept it private.

No, you can talk about your affair...it turned ugly when you tried to justify your cheating to this forum and insult others by implying that it was their own fault that they were cheated on.

Skirtchaser

11-10-2006, 10:35 PM

now she has cancer. yea I bet. She stoops to anything to get attention. Her man, a service man, in harms way everyday. She repays his love by opening her legs to anything that will pay her a little attention. What a little wh.ore.
And for your information Crissy, Elaine is 10 times the woman you could ever hope to be. Your pathetic little life is one lie after another. Anything for attention. It don't wash in this site.

MuffinMan

11-10-2006, 10:36 PM

I do realise the issues involved.. ive tried to bring myself up to date with all the forums, but there's loads to read through !

I can see where you're coming from, but my partner posted on here too.. He cheated online, and came on here and gave his version of events..

And I am sorry you have to go through this

He actually said that he felt like s*** after he had read some of the postings on here from people who had been cheated on

Then it was mission accomplished. I think he needed the cold hard truth. Question is, did it kick him in the ass any?

... not too mention having me to deal with !

Having never been cheated on, I think he didnt realise or appreciate the devastation and hurt that it causes, or what the aftermath of his actions would entail..

As I've said before on numerous occasions, I do not condone cheating, but if somebody takes the time to come on here after cheating, is completely honest about what they have done, and asks for advice on how to change, then surely as ones that have been cheated on, we can at least be civil to them ?

Sure we can...however, in crissy's case she was also COMPLETELY honest that she feels it was her husband's fault that she cheated. She was COMPLETELY honest that it was other husband's faults that their wives cheated. And she was COMPLETELY honest that she can't give up her lover even though her husband knows about him now.

Advice on how to change is one thing, and can command a certain level of civility....coming in here and justifying her cheating and insulting those who have been cheated on is a COMPLETELY other matter.

The cheaters that do not WANT to change, wouldn't even think about coming on a site like this..

crissy and chelsea did.

And one must not mistake being attacked for being told the cold hard truth.
A cheater does not see the light by someone trying to sugarcoat what they have done..they will start to think like Crissy and find justification for their actions.

I know in my situation, it helped my partner understand just how much he had hurt me and what other people thought of his actions.. he received constructive advice which in turn has helped us resolve some of our problems..

And there is the difference between your husband and someone like crissy.

Could it be that some of the responses posted by Chrissy suggesting that some of the blame lies with the one cheated on, have been reactive to the non constructive, sometimes personal comments made to her ?

She didn't receive bashing until she started her entitlement attitude.
And if she did receive cold hard advice and decided to get her nose in a snit..then she didn't learn a thing. If anything her true colors came out.

Besides...she wasn't seeking advice.

I don't know, but was just upset to read some of the comments that have been made..

Till x

Like what exactly? The comments calling her out on her lousy treatment of her husband, or her comments of putting the blame on the ones cheated on?

MuffinMan

11-10-2006, 10:38 PM

This site can be viewed in many different ways. Detecting Infidelity and preventing it. To the cheater this site can offer insight on how to prevent going forward and making a poor choice and preventing it from happening again.

That makes absolutely no sense and relevency with regards to you since you try to justify your cheating and put the blame on the victims.

With an attitude like that it is clear that you aren't trying to prevent a poor choice but trying to appease your guilt about it.

MuffinMan

11-10-2006, 10:40 PM

People come here to vent. When I talked about my affair, I knew people would vent about that. I knew I was going to get negative feedback and I did. I guess it didn't bother me because I agreed with them.

And did I attack you over it? I don't recall it.

Even though I don't like the fact you cheated, I actually think you are a sweetie. You didn't try to justify your cheating...crissy did.

MuffinMan

11-10-2006, 10:43 PM

would say we do that on this site. Place warnings about how we are too delicate and hurt and confused to hear from the cheaters etc. But obviously we are stronger then them and don't need to be protected. Plus, its too much damn fun running them off..

I don't want to run you off...I want you to take responsibility for you actions and quit trying to blame your husband for them and blaming the betrayed partners on here.

But if all you want to do is put the blame on the cheated, then you are not welcome here.

MuffinMan

11-10-2006, 10:44 PM

:eek:

and how do you know how big they are?????!!!!!!:D :p

Oh you can tell by a woman's name...like the name Tawnee...I just know you are double-d's.....LOL

MuffinMan

11-10-2006, 10:54 PM

Skirt..I don't think she is lying about the cancer. I survived it myself and wish that on nobody. If it is true, she has my deepest sympathies there.

Consequently, it was my month's stay in the hospital getting it removed is when she cheated....real nice huh...in pain in a hospital bed, and she's f#cking another guy.

crissy

11-11-2006, 06:23 AM

Regardless of how great of a husband you think you may have been you still have faults. Everyone has faults. It is my opinion that the breakdown of ones marriage falls on both parties. No one person is ever without blame when their marriage is failing. The amount of blame that goes to each party may be far greater for one then the other. Communication breaks down, to tired to notice your spouse because of work or spending the entire day with the kids. Sometimes people just get lazy in their marriage, you get so comfortable with your everyday life, that you stop trying. You just accept the changes and hope they are just a phase your partner is going through. Where do I think the fault lies in those type of situations. Both people! Marriage is constant work, just when you think you've got it all right, something outta life will smack you up side your head and just as quickly as things were good, they go south. I honestly believe that if I posted to a busted spouse that it was their fault their partner cheated it was strictly out of anger to spite that person on this site for their hateful comments to me. Doesn't make that right, it was wrong. I lashed out in anger and wanted you to hurt as much as you hurt me. Sorry.

Skirtchaser

11-11-2006, 06:52 AM

If you do then I do apologize for any remark about you having cancer.
But your post says both parties may be at fault for a marriage breakdown.
I agree with this, BUT, Back to the same ole issue. Cheating is not an Option.
If the Marriage is in shambles, Leave it Break clean. Don't resort to cheating.
That is all we been saying. I gave all in my first marriage.
My Babe now , says just half of that would and should please any woman.
I even at first maybe thought it was me, This one showed me the error of my ways. 13 years now. It's been great. The only regrets I have is I forgave the first one of her infidelities twice, tried to keep the home together for the children who were teens. When I finally got enough and left, guess where the kids lived. All 3 came to me. And I did take the Benz I gave her to drive back.:) I should have made a new life a lot sooner than I did. And the Ex's subsequent attempts at a better man, she found them, many now. One hit her which I never did, One was a child molester on parole, One was an alcholic, etc..... So, My point is, I stayed in the relationship. That was a mistake. There was happiness I could not imagine waiting out there. Thank God I found it.
So if my advice and posts can help someone that is hurting, That's why I am here. I encourage people who I deal with on the job in the real world to come to sites like this to vent. I see the successes and the failures in these situations.
I don't speak out of hurt, bitterness, Crissy, I don't lie to them. :cool:

tillymint

11-11-2006, 09:34 AM

So tell me, and I won't attack you if you say you are a cheater, are you the cheater, or the cheated on? If you say you have been cheated on, then I'd like to pose a few questions to you to see what your response is, and don't be scared.

Muffin,

Am the cheated on..

OK, it was ONLY online cheating as some people have pointed out, BUT to me emotional cheating is cheating ... PERIOD.. and I know you agree with this from your reply to my partners thread.. thanks for your input :)

However, I have been physically cheated on in the past.. my ex cheated with my best friend ( who is also my cousin!) after we had been together 8 years, and moved her into our house, 2 weeks after I moved out..

I had signed everything over to him ~~ naive but at the time, I just wanted to walk away from the situation and he had sapped so much of me, I had nothing left to fight with..

I lost somebody I loved more than anything, my house, my best friend and a host of other things..

it took me an age to get over it, and the hurt was unbelieveable..

But I AM over it now... i barely think of them (they split up after 12 months) BUT my current partners infidelity although not physical bought back all the old insecurities and hurt.. and perhaps my past experience is why the emotional cheating hit me so hard.

Soooo.. yes fire away with any questions you'd like to put to me and I'll reply honestly... and I'm not scared lol... have got nothing to be scared of, have I ? ;)

till x

MuffinMan

11-11-2006, 02:51 PM

Regardless of how great of a husband you think you may have been you still have faults. Everyone has faults.

So does my wife...but did I cheat? No..because I am a man and will conduct myself as such.

QUIT TRYING TO JUSTIFY YOURS AND EVERYONE ELSES CHEATING WAYS!

It is my opinion that the breakdown of ones marriage falls on both parties.

Of course it is, because you ARE the cheater. Whatever appeases your guilt.

No one person is ever without blame when their marriage is failing.

It isn't a failing marriage when affection is shown all the time and things, appear, to be fantastic.

You are assuming the marriage was failing. It was nothing more than she wanted strange c0ck...nothing more.

And if there were some small problems, they were definitely not an excuse for cheating.

Sometimes people just get lazy in their marriage, you get so comfortable with your everyday life, that you stop trying. You just accept the changes and hope they are just a phase your partner is going through.

Nope...sorry. I never stopped trying....hell if anything, I showed my wife just how much I loved her and never stopped wanting her and wanting to be intimate, romantic....all of that...yet she was the one that cheated.

You are barking up the wrong tree Crissy.

Where do I think the fault lies in those type of situations. Both people!

When a marriage could be better or has problems, I can see yes, it may be both parties fault.

But it is ONE partners fault that they are so weak that she can't keep from spreading her legs for another man, or he can't keep it in his pants.

Marital problems are STILL NO JUSTIFICATION OR EXCUSE FOR CHEATING.

If it were, I'd have f#cked a hundred women by now. But I'm a man and my dignity and decency will remain intact.

I honestly believe that if I posted to a busted spouse that it was their fault their partner cheated it was strictly out of anger to spite that person on this site for their hateful comments to me.

If you recall, I never attacked you EVEN THOUGH I knew you were a cheater.
That is until you started blaming the betrayed spouses for their partner's lecherous and cheating ways.

I lashed out in anger and wanted you to hurt as much as you hurt me. Sorry.

Don't worry...you didn't hurt me at all. My heart has been hardened from this type of thing LONG ago. No woman will ever be able to hurt me again, including my wife.

MuffinMan

11-11-2006, 02:55 PM

Muffin,

Am the cheated on..

OK, it was ONLY online cheating as some people have pointed out, BUT to me emotional cheating is cheating ... PERIOD.. and I know you agree with this from your reply to my partners thread.. thanks for your input :)

First off, I am going to bash you hard on one thing!....your choice of PLUM for the quote colors....LOL..just kidding.

Yes, emotional cheating is cheating...probably even worse.

But the question I was going to ask you was....what would you say to someone who told you that it was your fault that your bf or husband cheated on you?

tillymint

11-11-2006, 04:14 PM

[QUOTE=MuffinMan]First off, I am going to bash you hard on one thing!....your choice of PLUM for the quote colors....LOL..just kidding.

Yes, emotional cheating is cheating...probably even worse.

But the question I was going to ask you was....what would you say to someone who told you that it was your fault that your bf or husband cheated on you?

There you go.. a nice mascaline blue - trying to soften u up cause I AM going to take a bashing on this response !

OK.. I was devasted when I found out about the emotional cheating.. I cried for days and went through an emotional wringer BUT when we talked ( and we talked and talked and then some ) i could see where the cracks were in our relationship..

We were both at fault for the deteriation, and we've both now taken ownership of our own faults and are working on them together..

So I do take some of the blame for not SEEING that he was so unhappy that he felt the need to look elsewhere for something.. I devote lots of time to other relationships in my life .. i.e my daughter, my family, my friends.. but the one I should have been working on the hardest, is the one I neglected the most..

Whilst I hate what he did, and there is no excuse for it, I CAN see how it happened.. this is a flaw in his character, the same as I have flaws (albeit different ones) in mine.

Ive been accused in the past on this site of being too forgiving, and maybe its a flaw in my character, but I do believe that people can change.. I also believe that people make errors of judgement, mistakes, call it what you will, and I dont think that I personally could keep hold of the bitterness..

When I was physically cheated on by my best friend and my fiance, I spent most of my 20's feeling hatred and bitterness, and I now look back at what should have been the best years of my life, and feel only regret that I wasted those years on something that now means diddlysquat to me..

When I finally "found me" again, one of the things that I decided to change was my capacity to forgive.. If I had held onto that bitterness, then in my opinion, they would have had an impact on my life and on me as a person.. they had already had far too much imput into my 20's, and I wasnt going to let them have any input into the rest of my life..

I now forgive them for what they did, and when I look at how their lives have panned out since, (which is not good ), I dont feel satisfaction, I just feel pity.

I am now working on forgiving my current partner, and I know that will come in time.. and in the meantime, we are both now dedicated to making it work.

I really hope that this is making some sense, and hope to god that I havent offended anyone.

Am just trying to explain how Ive got through this myself.. and I know that it may not be the way for others..

Till x

MuffinMan

11-11-2006, 04:55 PM

Tilly...thanks for the blue...much better...hahaha!

And you will not be bashed for what you just posted.

You explained you have flaws....everyone does. I don't think anyone here denies that they are perfect...even though I have said I was the perfect husband...which I think I was a damn good one. No neglect, treated her right. Always showed her how much I loved her and WANTED her. NEVER any neglect.

But flaws are NO excuse for cheating. The difference between someone like you and someone like crissy is SHE blames the betrayed.
She tells them something like.."there is something you weren't giving them"....sh!t like that.

But honestly, if your husbands FLAW is to cheat when things don't go his way, that is a flaw that you shouldn't have to put up with.

You did, and thats you...I am not going to bash you for that. But what about the next time things don't go his way? If he did it once, he can do it again.

I told crissy in this thread that if a partners flaws was validation for cheating, I'd have slept with 100 women by now. But I don't, why?..because I am better than that.

I just get sick and tired of people coming in here with broken hearts and someone like her telling them there wasn't something they weren't giving them because she is justifying her own cheating.

And no, I don't think you would have defended anyone here....although I don't agree with you saying that you can see how it happened....if he was a man it would NOT have happened.

crissy

11-11-2006, 07:34 PM

Look, flat and simple. I have said it numerous times. There is no excuse great enough to justify the poor decision I made in having the affair. But in my situation "my gut didn't lie". I knew there were reasons that my H was neglecting me. Denial is where I was residing at the time. Neglected is exactly how I felt. Turns out I was getting all the neglect while he was getting a piece somewhere else. This was all happening way before I ever cheated. Attention from the OM, hell yeah I liked it. It had been so long since I received any attention from my H, I forget what it felt like. Attention, OM took the time to spend a few moments a day listening to me on the phone talk about my day, my stressers, and my kids. Long distance relationships are difficult and my marriage has been exactly that for years. I feel for every military couple, truckers, or any other couple trying to make their marriages and relationships work when they barely see each other. Distance doesn't always make the heart grow fonder, it can build even greater walls. Total breakdown in the communication between myself and my spouse. I hate how this whole affair has consumed my life and turned me into someone I can't stand.

tillymint

11-12-2006, 02:45 AM

You explained you have flaws....everyone does. I don't think anyone here denies that they are perfect...even though I have said I was the perfect husband...which I think I was a damn good one. No neglect, treated her right. Always showed her how much I loved her and WANTED her. NEVER any neglect.

Can I ask you what reason she gave you for cheating ? Have read your other postings but cant see anywhere where you have posted what her reaction was when you confronted her or what reasons she gave..

Just curious..

Till x

Ravage

11-12-2006, 03:25 AM

Skirtchaser

11-12-2006, 06:29 AM

tillymint

11-12-2006, 06:33 AM

Good reply Ravage..

This is what I was trying to convey in my earlier reply..

You can stay and hold onto the bitterness but in the end you end up losing a part of yourself in the process..

You can leave and still hold onto the bitterness and it twists you up inside, changes your core personality and leads to a life of cynacism and lonliness..

OR

you can stay and work towards forgiveness..

you can leave and still work towards forgiveness..

This is why I wanted to know from muffin what his wifes response was when he confronted her..

If she is showing genuine remorse and is putting her all into trying to rectify her actions then he will eventually be able to let go of the pain, and work towards getting his trust back..

If she is not showing remorse and leaving all the work to him then that is why the anger is still there..

Anger is one of emotions betrayal leaves with the betrayed and there is no time stipulation on when this goes..

But when I learnt to forgive, I felt so much better not carrying round that anger... it was like a weight off..

Till x

tillymint

11-12-2006, 06:44 AM

Skirt,

I havent said at any stage that muffin does not give good advice..

He does.. and some of his postings have helped me in my own situation..

BUT if you read his threads and postings on his own situation, you will see that the pain, anger and maybe bitterness is still there..

And Im not saying this is wrong.. everyone on here is at different stages.

1. The initial hurt, anger, disbelief stage.

2. The accepting its happened stage.

3. The choice stage.

4. The living with those choices stage.

5. The forgiveness stage.

I think Muffin may be at stage 4 and from those of us at stage 5, we just want to help him get to it !

I think that this is what Ravage was referring to..

till x

Skirtchaser

11-12-2006, 07:49 AM

I know Tilley, Muffin is on the way, He is a good poster, as are you. Keep posting.

MuffinMan

11-12-2006, 09:06 AM

Can I ask you what reason she gave you for cheating ? Have read your other postings but cant see anywhere where you have posted what her reaction was when you confronted her or what reasons she gave..

Just curious..

Till x

Her explanation was it was a "mistake"...which I immediately said it wasn't a mistake that she wanted to do it and she did.

Her reaction when I confronted her? She denied it....then she tried to play it off saying that this other guy tried to kiss her, and they did...then she pulled away saying "i'm engaged" and said that was it. Well knowing that was bull and didn't coincide with the information I had, I prodded further....I called her a liar and told her to get out of the house. She started crying and insisted that thats all that happened.

Well for the next 2 weeks I slept on the couch and decided I was not going to acknowledge her existence since she was still lying. Finally she came clean and said it was more than just one kiss...but no sex. I called her a liar again because I had the goods on her.

I wanted her to take a lie dectector test, which she refused. I wanted to know what she did before this encounter, during this encounter, and I had suspicions she cheated after we were married...but she refused.

She told me she loves me and it was something that "just happened" and if she could go back and do it all over again she would.

I'm sure she didn't say this to herself until she was caught.

MuffinMan

11-12-2006, 09:21 AM

Wow muffinman, I've read your posts and boy do you sound very angry, Hey I'm a guy just like you, I understand where your coming from. I've been cheated on and taken for granted. That **** hurts. You feel like a ****ing fool because you dedicated time and love to a woman who you now feel like doesnt deserve it. Is your wife remorseful does she own her ****. I think after the affair ends you can rebuild a marriage if the damage aint to servere.

She seems remorseful, but she doesn't own her sh!t. She refused to take a lie detector test and to this day will lie about what actually happened.
I told her it doesn't matter, that even if she didn't f#ck this guy, which I know she did, that it doesn't change the fact that she betrayed me.

And yes...I AM F#CKING ANGRY. It hasn't been but a year since I found out and it aint gettin' better my brutha.

All that hate and bitterness, resentfulness it's gonna tear you up inside.

Nah, I can handle it....my heart is now and forever hardened.

If you aint happy at home why dont you ask her to move out. Pay for her to get an apartment, draw up some LSA papers.

Because I have a responsibility to my kids. I refuse to let a cheating woman keep me from them EVERY day, not every other weekend.

Some say its not good for the kids to see this. They aren't seeing anything. My wife thinks everything is ok, I keep it to myself. I take my anger to the gym 5 days a week, use it as motivation to get more work on my house done, and enjoy my children.

Like I said, my wife thinks everything is just hunky dory with me...with the exception she is no longer allowed to go out with "the girls" to bars and nightclubs....she f#cked that up. She is a wife...not a college floosy.

Being all that hateful you start to get drained. Dont drain yourself, if you want to be better in the head you got to let go. Let her come back to you groveling at your feet, matbe by then you have forgiven her to give her a second chance.

Ok, here is my question to you and everyone else...why does she DESERVE a 2nd chance? Why does ANY cheater deserve a 2nd chance?

Yeah people **** up and make bad choices, but if they want redemption let them prove it. Trust me all that pain and hate you got will go away if you just distance yourself and think clearly.

I know better than anybody.

So do I. The visions of another man's d!ck in my wife will never go away. I told her this and she balled her eyes out. She knew right then and there she took a loving, caring, and attentive husband and ruined it for life.

I'm not saying my wife and I don't get along, but the husband she knew, as well as the wife I knew, are gone forever and will NEVER return.

MuffinMan

11-12-2006, 09:23 AM

Ravage,
I'm appalled. Where did you get the idea Muffin was bitter??
He vents here true enough, but the threads that set him off are the same one's that pi.ss alot of us off.
That is people coming here and trying to shed the blame of an affair onto the partner. Some try to justify the affair because of problems in the marriage.
Muffin does help other people here and does give good advice. There are many good ones here, read on.

Too true Skirt. I admit I get worked up alot...but dammit..thats what happens when I hear worthless people try to justify their cheating and insult the people who have been cheated on.

MuffinMan

11-12-2006, 09:31 AM

Good reply Ravage..

This is what I was trying to convey in my earlier reply..

You can stay and hold onto the bitterness but in the end you end up losing a part of yourself in the process..

Actually, my anger over the situation has done wonders for me....I am closer to my kids, I look better than I did when I was 18 and finally have a six pack, and my house has never looked better!

So it has its advantages.

If she is not showing remorse and leaving all the work to him then that is why the anger is still there..

BINGO!!!! She is the one that f#cked up, yet it is me that is trying to act like nothing happened. So we get into fights with her saying she will try harder, but it never happens. So I've just told myself, f#ck it...I'm tired of wasting my energy on her...so I put my energy into me, my kids, and my house.
My heart is forever hardened....some say that is sad...but whatever happens in the future, there isn't a woman on the earth that can hurt me now...especially my wife.

But when I learnt to forgive, I felt so much better not carrying round that anger... it was like a weight off..
Till x

Oh I let go of it and thought I completely forgave...until one thing keeps popping up in my head.....the visions of other men's members sliding in and out of her...and everything else she did with them. Makes me f#ckin' sick.

And you look at me and see an angry man...damn right. I use the F word alot in here...never use to. I don't think anyone that ever knew me before the cheating was found out would have ever thought I would talk like this.

MuffinMan

11-12-2006, 09:34 AM

I think Muffin may be at stage 4 and from those of us at stage 5, we just want to help him get to it !

I think that this is what Ravage was referring to..

till x

Will stage 5 take the visions in my head away of my wife banging other guys while we were together? I doubt it.
If thats the case, is stage 5 ever possible?......doubt it.

I think I will be stuck at stage 4. I mean really, how could I completely forgive someone who has f#cked other men while engaged and married?

I'll tell you one thing, my boys WILL learn not to let ANYONE walk all over them.

elainegayla

11-12-2006, 10:33 AM

Muffinman...I feel I'm right where you are. I have forgiven (what do I care?) but won't ever forget.

I put my energy and love into people and things that I get something back from. I just refuse to throw anything into the black hole. Well, I do throw somethings in there, but not my love and trust. Just the superficial stuff he know does for me to "make up for the hurt". I clean, iron his stuff, listen to him, but its all in a detached way. I don't share ME.

I think I could have made a better recovery but my husband refused for soooo long to tell the truth. For at least a year I got a dibble of more and then a declaration "that it!" Then the next week, I learned more. On and on til I gave up. It shredded the very last hope I had. To this day, he refuses to discuss things I want to know. Things I need to know to get over it. I get "I forget" and "thats all there is" and "you need to let it go" are common things I hear from him.

Instead he has bought me everything in the world. I have to be careful of commenting on things I like b/c it will show up in my house the next day. All the superficial stuff is what he is willing to do. Thats what I give him. Its a fake marriage as far as I'm concerned but he is happy.

I just want to know who my husband really is. I want him to share with me the good and the bad. Its different for me. He cheated for our entire marriage. I lived with a fake, I want to know who I was living with. He says he has changed and even if that is true, I still want to know who he was.

I don't know how to go to the last step (and I won't go there) until he can give me what I want. I don't want money or things. I think its great that he is a wonderful father now, really involved. I think its great he does his share of taking care of the house and kids. All the things he should have been doing, he is now doing. For that, he gets to stay and enjoy being a part of our family. But those things don't fix our marriage or create intimacy.

What he refuses to understand is the holes in his story are filled with my imagination. I guess my imagination must be tame compared to the truth because he would fill in those holes if it weren't.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE. Help me here. I need to know what you all think. I try to help others on here (to varying degrees of sucess). I'm begging. Read what I'm saying here and help my with your input. Did you guys that have recovered completely, get the things I am asking for? Do you think I'm unrealistic? I want a good marriage not this.

MuffinMan

11-12-2006, 11:37 AM

Sounds like we are in the same boat elaine.

What I'd like to know from people who say they have forgiven...what happens when the visions of your spouse screwing other people pop into your head?

tillymint

11-12-2006, 01:25 PM

Ok, here is my question to you and everyone else...why does she DESERVE a 2nd chance? Why does ANY cheater deserve a 2nd chance?

Because if you decide to stay with the cheater, then you can either commit to staying with them for the next x amount of years and spend those years full of bitterness, or you stay and learn to let go.. only then have you any hope of being happy.. A lifetime is a long time to spend being bitter.. and what a waste of your life..

I'm not saying that cheaters deserve a 2nd chance.. they don't.. PERIOD.. BUT.. I, you and many others are still with them, so regardless of what we believe, they ARE getting that 2nd chance and it's our choice as to how we spend that 2nd chance with them..

Till x

tillymint

11-12-2006, 01:42 PM

Will stage 5 take the visions in my head away of my wife banging other guys while we were together? I doubt it.
If thats the case, is stage 5 ever possible?......doubt it.

I think I will be stuck at stage 4. I mean really, how could I completely forgive someone who has f#cked other men while engaged and married?

The visions are truely s*** but trust me on this.. they will go..

After I was cheated on physically by my fiance and cousin, everytime I closed my eyes all I could visulise was them together in my bed, in my house and it made me physically sick.. I took pro plus to stay awake and herbal stuff to make me sleep... was a living night mare..

But I moved 250 miles away from them after a year and began to heal.. the visions went eventually, and I can honestly say I now dont give a toss about either them..

With regards to the forgiveness, this is soooooo hard and I talked and learnt a lot about this from my dad.. he's so wise lol.. My mum cheated on him and left him and me and my brother when we were just kids.. she moved to the other side of the country with the man she was cheating with and is still with him 30 years later..

My dad, bless him, was left with no wife and two kids under the age of 10..

After all this time, he's still bewildered as to why she left, BUT he forgave her a long time ago.. we talked for ages on how he got to that stage.. but his take on it is he is an open book, has a heart the size of england and he liked this about himself.. he wasnt going to let another person make him so bitter that this great part of him hardened and affected the next person he met, and his ability to love and give 150% of himself

He didnt want to lose this part of himself, so he clung onto it, and has been with my stepmum who is a little darling for the last 15 years..

the forgiveness I guess comes first and then everything else slots into place..

Sorry if I'm rambling again, but the reason for sharing my dads experience, is cause his advice helped me enormously...

Till x

tillymint

11-12-2006, 01:50 PM

Nah, I can handle it....my heart is now and forever hardened.

But are you handling it ? Or just "getting by" ?

And the statement my heart is now and forever hardened saddened me loads..

I really hope that one day it starts to thaw because it's a short time alive, a long time dead as they say and you're life is worth SO much MORE than this half life..

Till x

elainegayla

11-12-2006, 01:56 PM

What about my question?

tillymint

11-12-2006, 02:42 PM

What about my question?

I wasnt ignoring this hun, its just your posting hit a nerve, cause it mirrors so many of the emotions I felt, and my heart really goes out to you..

I just wanted to try and get my head around it and try and post a reply that gives it justice.. just give me a sec to get my head round it lol !

Till
x

crissy

11-12-2006, 02:43 PM

Tilly I can see why you are such a strong woman. You were very blessed to have such a good hearted father and role model. It's been less than a yr since my father passed away. I know that if he was still alive right now that he would be tremendously disappointed in me.

Elaine,
I don't have any answers for you, god I wish I did. Just know and believe always that you deserve the very best out of life. You have made the choice to stay and work hard on rebuilding your marriage. That takes alot of guts. You do deserve answers. BUT what if they never come? As frightening as it may be to not have your H there with you everyday, would it be more frightening to live the rest of your life with someone you really don't know? These days I seem to be trying to get a handle on all the information I can to explain why I am who I am. I want the intamacy, the passion, the love, the bond, and everything else that comes with feeling in love. I want that with my H too, but just like you. How do we get there? I hope you find what your searching for. Honestly I do wish you and Tilly both the best of what life has to give.

MuffinMan

11-12-2006, 02:46 PM

Will stage 5 take the visions in my head away of my wife banging other guys while we were together? I doubt it.
If thats the case, is stage 5 ever possible?......doubt it.

I think I will be stuck at stage 4. I mean really, how could I completely forgive someone who has f#cked other men while engaged and married?

The visions are truely s*** but trust me on this.. they will go..

After I was cheated on physically by my fiance and cousin, everytime I closed my eyes all I could visulise was them together in my bed, in my house and it made me physically sick.. I took pro plus to stay awake and herbal stuff to make me sleep... was a living night mare.

Well in my case, my wife and I were going through some pictures...and we came across some pictures the year she cheated on me. It was also the same year we were engaged.

I came across our engagement picture. She said "wow..look at us then!"....I had a very different reaction. I became full of anger. I saw the picture and knew it was back then in the timeframe that picture was taken that she was cheating. I immediately tore the picture up, and she said, "WHAT ARE YOU DOING??"....I said, "getting rid of the worst memories of my life"...she replied "our engagement was the worst memory of your life?" I then replied..."thats when you cheated on me, so ...YES!"

I then went through the rest of the pictures in that envelope that were taken that same year and tore them all up. I had to...everytime I see ANYTHING that reminds me of the time she betrayed me, I want it out of my house or destroyed.

MuffinMan

11-12-2006, 02:51 PM

Nah, I can handle it....my heart is now and forever hardened.

But are you handling it ? Or just "getting by" ?

With the exception of our fights and the times I throw it back in her face, she thinks everything is just fine with me. I bottle it up for the kids.
And its not really that hard to bottle up...I live my life through them, work out all the time, and work on my house. Thats what keeps my mind off of it.

And the statement my heart is now and forever hardened saddened me loads..

Thats what happens sometimes when the person you love so much betrays you.

I really hope that one day it starts to thaw because it's a short time alive, a long time dead as they say and you're life is worth SO much MORE than this half life.

Nah...the after life looks good to me. Its my wife's afterlife she has to worry about.

elainegayla

11-12-2006, 03:04 PM

Thanks Tillymint. I am eager to hear your input.

Thanks, Crissy. Your input is appreciated, too.

I'm frustrated b/c I have been reading some really good books on what men think and need and I want to do those things but I won't when he refuses to understand what I need. Either refuses to understand or just won't give it to me. Why? And how do I get him to see it won't get past this superficial until he opens up to me. I don't want the sex details (but I'd be willing to hear those too). I just want to know what he was thinking about me and our marriage. All he says is that he wasn't thinking right. That's not enough. In what way was he thinking? Who was he? What was I to him? What did he tell his lovers? Did he like them? Did he share feelings with them? If so, what feelings.

He wants me to believe he cheated ten years and never had a relationship. It was all sex. How can that be? He MIGHT be capable of that but I don't believe everyone of those women were.

This haunts more more than anything. He can't give more more then 2 names! He cheated 10 years with over 15 women. He says he can't remember. Do you believe that?

Ravage

11-12-2006, 08:06 PM

Ok, here is my question to you and everyone else...why does she DESERVE a 2nd chance? Why does ANY cheater deserve a 2nd chance?

Yeah that's a hard one right there, remorseful people with a fondness for wanting to change. People who are assholes with no ability to change deserve no mercy. That's where I stand. I had a ex-girl who I knew was still ****ing with an ex-boyfriend tried to play me and say nothing happened. but I knew better I saw right through her. To me women arent really convincing liars, especially when they cant even look at you in the eye.

Let's just say I forgave her but I will never be with her again, oh and she left me for her ex-boyfriend, stating she still had feelings for him. And guess what he dropped her again! lol. Hilarious.

I think maybe if muffinman's wife was given an ultimatim about changing maybe she would. maybe you need to show her what's at stake here. There will come a day when she will need you the most and she will regret pissing you off and not being there to help her. Also it feels good that she lives in fear that you could have a revenge affair and be totally justified. Yeah it's wrong, I know but in the end she couldnt blame, you if you did. Just saying, dont do it. but know that it's in the back of your head.

MuffinMan

11-12-2006, 08:10 PM

Well..I'm not sure if she has changed or not...do I believe she has cheated in the last few years? No, but then again, I'm not sure about the times I watched the kids while she went out. And when she went out it was in the same small town we live in...not many secrets can be kept.

So in my situation, I guess I gave her that second chance, but I don't think she deserved it....if she is wanting a 2nd chance, she is lucky we have the kids...otherwise there wouldn't be one.

Tomgirl

11-12-2006, 08:38 PM

He wants me to believe he cheated ten years and never had a relationship. It was all sex. How can that be? He MIGHT be capable of that but I don't believe everyone of those women were.

I know what you mean but my husband is the opposite. He says that they were only friendships but when I confronted some of the women they say it was sexual. He still denies ever having sex with any other woman. He says those women were lying on him. I want to believe that but the woman in me let's me know that he is the liar. If they were lying then why would he still remain friends with them. It's so hard to keep the marriage fresh and exciting when you can't help but wonder if it's real. He tells me I'm his world and that he loves me. He says things like, "Why would I cheat when I have you?" I think that's BS.

MuffinMan

11-12-2006, 09:06 PM

Tomgirl, you do know hes lying his arse off right? Not to make you feel bad, but of course he had sex with them.
And why would the women lie about it?

Tomgirl, do you have kids with this man?

Ravage

11-12-2006, 09:34 PM

Tomgirl he is lying. I'll tell you why.

1.He is lying to protect his ass,
2.He is lying because he does not want to change how you see him, he might want to deny ever having sex with those women but deep down you know it happened.
3.He is lying to protect your feelings, yeah scum of the earth lie to keep it going but rationalize that you already know half and telling you the full truth would only make it worse, but they dont know that not telling the full truth only make them look like fools and they say: if she knows she'll leave.

Tomgirl the affairs aint your fault, yeah 50% of the marriage is to be assigned to you. But 100% of the affairs belong to him, That's for him.

You have to get tested for STD's. I'm sorry but you said ten times? How is that the truth? How do you know if he doesnt have the clap?crabs?HPV? AIDS?!

First thing to do is protect yourself first everything else worry about later.

MuffinMan

11-13-2006, 07:50 AM

Tomgirl the affairs aint your fault, yeah 50% of the marriage is to be assigned to you. But 100% of the affairs belong to him, That's for him.

Thats about the best way I have heard it put yet. Those who justify cheating need to hear that.

elainegayla

11-13-2006, 09:42 AM

Hello out there? Anyone there? Do you see me? Anyone interested in my questions?

tillymint

11-13-2006, 10:29 AM

Elaine.

Im so sorry Ive taken a while to respond to your posting.

I find I can only stay in this site for a while before I become emotionlly drained, and need some time out :)

After reading your posting, I needed to take a break from it as it bought back loads of memories for me..

I don't profess to have all the answers, and when I try to give advice I base it on my own experiences, and try to explain how I came through it.. It's not the answer for everyone, and I appreciate that..

Sooo, here goes !

I feel I'm right where you are. I have forgiven (what do I care?) but won't ever forget

You DO care and that's the ***** of it.. If you didnt care, you wouldnt still be there and you wouldnt still be searching for answers.. You won't ever forget, but you WILL get to the stage where you let go of the pain..

I put my energy and love into people and things that I get something back from. I just refuse to throw anything into the black hole. Well, I do throw somethings in there, but not my love and trust. Just the superficial stuff he know does for me to "make up for the hurt". I clean, iron his stuff, listen to him, but its all in a detached way. I don't share ME.

Boy do I know this detachment.. Id look at my partner sometimes whilst he was talking to me, and not hear a word he was saying, because inside my head I was calling him every name under the sun..

NOW ? Ive called him every name I know.. to his face.. I dont keep that in anymore.. If Im having a bad day, I tell him and tell him why..

You're still protecting yourself, which is so totally understandable, so YOU will not be shared until you have really forgiven.

I think I could have made a better recovery but my husband refused for soooo long to tell the truth. For at least a year I got a dibble of more and then a declaration "that it!" Then the next week, I learned more. On and on til I gave up. It shredded the very last hope I had. To this day, he refuses to discuss things I want to know. Things I need to know to get over it. I get "I forget" and "thats all there is" and "you need to let it go" are common things I hear from him.

And this my friend is where I think your problem lies.

If you REALLY want to move on, you have to address EVERY issue - however painful. I told my partner that if he didnt tell me everything, I was gone..

And I MEANT it.. Until I knew everything, I wasnt in a position to know whether I COULD forgive him.. and I was like a dog with a bone.. I wouldnt let go until he had told me EVERYTHING..

And if I wasnt happy with any part of his explanation, I kept on AND on AND on until he had explained things to my satisfaction..

This was an extremely painful process.. cause I didnt like a lot of the stuff I heard was horrid BUT at least I was then making an informed decision on whether I stayed or went...

If you're not happy with your husbands explanations, then you have the right to demand that he answers your questions. If you dont resolve this issue, then you're papering over the cracks, and cant move on to the next stage of your recovery..

Every emotion you are feeling, I have felt.

I felt like I was compromising myself by staying.. compromising MY values, MY beliefs BUT I dont feel like that anymore..

I honestly believe that to move on you HAVE to address all the issues, crack open all the secrets, and then you can start to hopefully forgive..

I realise that both me and my partner were commited to doing this, and that is why I think we are making progress.

Me personally in YOUR situation.. you need to be stronger with him.. Tell him that unless he gives you the answers you need then your marriage is effectively over in the love/commitment/respect sense.. and is a marriage of convenience for the kids sake only...

I hope this helps in some way, and I am so genuinely sorry that you are going through this.

Take care of yourself.

Tilly xxx

elainegayla

11-13-2006, 10:45 AM

Thanks for you input. I understand about getting away from it for awhile, believe me.

I'm printing out what you said/posted...removing all signs of your name and this website etc. (This is my sanctuary and I need it to myself.)

Its my last chance to get him to see. I was like pitbull for a year and longer but I just gave up getting the whole truth. I was tired and he was making me feel bad about needing it. His therapists told him I have what I need to make a decision knowing he cheated. Maybe. But I need more then that basic fact to REBUILD my marriage. The harder I tried the less I got and the fighting was draining.

I'll try once more and if it doesn't happen, I have to accept (and so will he) that our marriage is stuck here. No stage 5 happening.

Sometimes I wish he wanted to leave. He thinks the fact he no longer cheats should be enough on his part. Its not.

MuffinMan

11-13-2006, 11:12 AM

Hello out there? Anyone there? Do you see me? Anyone interested in my questions?

LOL...sorry sweetheart.

No I don't believe he forgotten the other women's names...he is lying his arse off.

What other questions did you have honey?

markus

11-13-2006, 12:45 PM

Deeply scared was smart to toss you and marcus out. Funny months ago I found marcus's profile on the site, I pm'd and asked him if it was him. He denied it, but looks like ole marcus lies about alot of ****.

Thats bullsh.it if ive ever read it

Why would i hide that ?

Btw...... I think your sad using the internet as a cheat to gain attention for yourself - when you came on this website you told us your story and acted like you were the victim
You still havn't changed , Your still looking for ways to justify your actions
But thats nothing new with cheaters
Cheaters are experts at reconditioning their brain , they strive on false beliefs
How sad is it that a person gets to believe their own bulls:t ?

elainegayla

11-13-2006, 12:55 PM

Am I wrong in needing my questions anwered?

Is it possible he forgets name, places, what they talk about, when it started? I know 10 years and 15 women is a lot TO remember but this is a man that remembers the guy's name and where he was from who sat next to him for 10minutes at an airport 15 years ago.

Assuming her remembers, why can't he just spit it out and let me deal with it? How much worse can it be?

MuffinMan

11-13-2006, 01:59 PM

Am I wrong in needing my questions anwered?

LOL...no sweetie...just alot of posts and little time.

Assuming her remembers, why can't he just spit it out and let me deal with it? How much worse can it be?

Because he doesn't want to make it worse or is deeply ashamed....as he should be.

elainegayla

11-13-2006, 02:37 PM

I meant was I wrong wanting my questions answered by HIM!

Thanks. You are saying what he says...he's ashamed, doesn't want to hurt me...lol...little late for that!

crissy

11-13-2006, 02:39 PM

Elaine,

Reading back you said that out of the 15 women he only gave you 2 names. In 10 yrs 15 women. It may really be that some of those were one time nameless women. He may be feeling so guilty from the reaction you got from the 2 names that he is unable to tell you anymore details. I'm sure there could be several reasons why he is holding out, but honestly. If you have asked for the details and he still refuses even though you know about the Affairs, then I would say that should be enough for you to know that if you continue to stay in this marriage you will never be able to rebuild any trust. I'm sure that it is difficult to feel any trust and that would be with a partner doing everything they could to rebuild the marriage. I think you need to take a good look and decide what it is that you want out of your marriage. Then you need to tell him and if he still refuses to give you the answers you need to move forward. Well then you've answered you own ? You deserve to be in a healthy relationship that provides you with all you need to be happy. A committed relationship where you are not the only person giving. You have been giving and giving of yourself to this man for years. You lost your own idenity in sustaining this relationship for as long as you have. Stand your ground! You have so much to give, you've show that to so many here in this forum. Just be strong and fight for what you want, answers. You deserve answers, sometimes you have to shake them up to wake them up. If he thinks that even after all that you know so far that you won't make a choice to leave him, kick him oout, etc... he will continue to stand firm on not answering. I'm sorry you're going through this.

Tomgirl

11-13-2006, 02:57 PM

Elaine, sorry my post didn't have answers but my own complaints. I guess your situation seems similar to mine so I vented when I read your post.

But my advice to you is similar to Crissy's. Yes, you deserve answers and yes you should keep trying to get them. I agree with everyone when they say he knows and he remembers. But I wonder if pushing the issue may make things worse? It may be like you said, maybe the marriage will never get to stage 5. I think our husbands feel as long as we don't know everything they can go on like it didn't happen. I think my husband is going to take his to the grave. So now the tables turn back on us. What are we willing to deal with and how long are we willing to do it? Right now I am staying but I don't know what the future holds.

Remember to keep focusing on you. That was actually your advice from another post. You were the one who encouraged me to focus on myself more and not him and the kids. So, I did and I'm going back to school now. It's motivated me and helped me feel a lot better. I can now see a little light at the end of the tunnel and I know longer focus on him all the time.

Thanks and take care

tomasingm

11-13-2006, 03:05 PM

:p :cool: Who do you think you are?? Crissy is working on rebuilding and but she like any one else deserves to be happy. ;)

tomasingm

11-13-2006, 03:13 PM

You have a good post, but deep down inside you are BAD, very bad, Bad Crissy!! I dunno but I am starting to have a thing for you. Maybe you are the blonde bombshell hardcore broad of my dreams The one everybody warns about ......:p ;) I have a thing for abusive cheating relationships.......:D

markus

11-13-2006, 03:16 PM

:D

Were getting councilling from mistress Crissy

MuffinMan

11-13-2006, 04:27 PM

:p :cool: Who do you think you are?? Crissy is working on rebuilding and but she like any one else deserves to be happy. ;)

LOL...now tomas, you and I both know you have evidence to the contrary...don't even make me say it.

tomasingm

11-13-2006, 04:38 PM

Shhhhhhhhh...... :)

elainegayla

11-13-2006, 07:05 PM

You know what? I do need to focus on myself. If I haven't gotten the answers yet, I probably never will. Its not something I can control, so I need to let it go. I'll just carry on with this half marriage and try to get a little more well-rounded. Try to find other ways to get fufilled. Its my loss but its his, too.

You really have no idea how much you all have helped me. I see such good people on here. ((HUG)) to everyone.

I am going on my first husband/wife alone vacation this week. I really needed some time away, a little quiet. Too bad hubby is coming. But I have encouraged him to golf a lot so I should have time to just clear my head and enjoy the sun.

I might go through ChatCheaters withdrawal!

Skirtchaser

11-13-2006, 07:58 PM

he remembers more than he wants to tell.
If he can't remember the name, bet he can tell you where they spread their legs for him at.

MuffinMan

11-13-2006, 09:45 PM

You really have no idea how much you all have helped me. I see such good people on here. ((HUG)) to everyone.

Just remember sweetheart, you aren't going through it alone. We are here.

Doesn't it feel good to get sh!t off your chest?

elainegayla

11-14-2006, 09:24 AM

Feels great to bounce my ideas/feelings off of someone that can relate.

My family (parents) are big into not bringing up things unpleasant. (quickly bury it and don't let the nighbors know type of people).

My best friend's husband cheated and she has rebuilt her marriage to her satisfaction (a nightmare marriage in my opinion) and I hate to burden her with my junk.

So you are all I have. And you all are all I need. Thanks!

And yes Skirtchaser, he also forgets WHERE he did the deeds. Well, he can name cities (Toledo, Indianapolis, Akron, Cincinnati, Chicago...) but can't put ANY names of women to the cities. The whole tri-state area knew my marriage was a sham before I did. Its so humiliating.

Single women everywhere....DON'T MARRY A TRAVELING SALESMAN. They miss their wives soooo much they have no choice but to screw easy women LOL.

Oh, yes...early on I heard a lot of really funny excuses.

I love you too much.

I didn't think you would care.

It was my way of dealing with the pressure of our kids.

Cocaine makes everyone look good (This MUST be true. I saw the 250 pound heffer with the 4 inch black roots and white blonde hair. Maybe that should put her in the anti-drug ads "You could think this women looks so good you'd screw her". Probably have huge waiting lists at the rehab centers!)