Ongoing H311

[tech526]

Hi all. I have been reading some of the stories and have come away with some good thoughts and ideas. Here is what is happening with me:

In a nutshell, I know my wife of 8 years is having an on-going affair with a guy, we'll call him J. This has been going on since before Thanksgiving. Before Thanksgiving, my wife, T, and I had not been getting along well at all and she had been spending an unusual amount of time with J, under the pretense of tutoring him and doing typing for him, for pay, with his college work. I was initially uncomfortable with it, but tried to blow it off as I trusted her. Now, understand that we have an 'in-law' suite on property behind our main house. This has long been her art studio. She also would have friends over and they would hang out out there. Most, if not all, smoke pot, I do not, so it keeps me out. It got to the point that T&J would work on his classwork till all hours of the night and into the morning hours. She would tell me that they worked 'till we just passed out'. I finally pitched a fit over it and put a stop to it. Then, the week or so before thanksgiving, she and I had been at it hard. I finally told her that I fully believed we could work out our problems if we both put 100% into our marriage. her reply to me was that she didn't know if she 'had 100% left to put into it'. Thanksgiving morning I told her it was over. She moved the rest of her things, for the most part, out to the studio. Unfortunately, I love her and could not abide that without a true effort to save or marriage. So, a day or so after thanksgiving, we talked and decided we'd try a 'separation'. Well, as you can imagine, with her on property in the studio, and us interacting daily, this didn't work for me. we have gone back and forth trying to find some way to co-exist on the same property, work on making things better (I thought), take care of the kids, and not kill each other. Mid-december, we talked about some 'rules' for our separation. That seeing others would be OK, as long as we didn't cross the sexual line. Anyway, days after that T and I were going to have some adult playtime after a movie together on DVD. She fell asleep during the movie, so, being the loving Hubby, I decided to let her sleep and we'd have our playtime some other time. I covered her with a blanket and she stirred, talking in her sleep (she has always done this on occasion). What she spoke floored me: "James, I need to feel you inside me". I was dumbfounded. She woke up a few minutes later, and, in short, we talked. She informed me that she and J had 'casually dated, but just as friends to dinner. There are feelings there, but nothing has, or will happen, between them'. I didn't buy it, but for the sake of not fighting, grudingly said OK. I'll cut off some of this and just say that they continued to interact, at least on the surface, as 'just best friends'. In January, I came across 4 pics of the two of them snuggled up on the chase lounge in the studio. His arm around her, she's laying back on him, and him kissing the side of her head. I went balistic. Told her that if he came back on my property I'd shoot him as a tresspasser. Since then, LOL, he pickes her up at the street. I have told her that I am not good with and can't deal with the 'friendship', but she continues to contact and see him daily. There is some more, but that give everyone a good idea of whats been going on.

I have decided that, even though I still love her, I will not live like this. The problem is that if I file for divorce I'm affraid I'll lose my 6 year old daughter to her and my house as well. I have no 'solid' proof of an affair, at least a lawyer says that what I have 'could make a good case, but it's circumstantial'. I have found a friend that used to be a PI and he is going to try to help me out, but I have no money, so we are going to be working that part out.....

[sadpatricia]

The biggest problem with the cheated on spouse/partner in the relationship is a tendency to rush to find out things. Also, your anxiety and nervousness in front of your spouse will alert her to be more secretive, thus thwarting the effort you are making (with or without a PI) to find out the truth. You must be at least half the game player she is. Your daughter's custody depends on it. She seems like a selfish person. Do you want your daughter with her full-time? You must sit back, relax, play dumb, and watch carefully, documenting everything. Once she feels you are not "hot on the trail", she will eventually let down her guard, giving you the information you need. And it may be that she is not cheating, per se. But, in your case, I am willing to bet the farm that she is. She exhibits all the classic signs: "I can't give any more," agreeing to separations, wanting her space, blah, blah, blah. ACT LIKE EVRYTHING's OK. Let her have her space. BE PATIENT. Does she have a computer? Seek out evidence, discreetly. This may sound cold to you. But what could be colder than what she is doing to your family?
Sincerely,
Been there already,
Sadpatricia

[tech526]

Thanks Sad. I am working dilligently to do just that, make like nothing is wrong. I, too, would bet the farm. Seems this guy has become a household name around my home, even to my daughter. She is forever wanting to see her "J". Makes me crazy. But I am doing my best to just hang in like nothing is wrong, though at times I know I am falling short. We don't have internet at home, I cancelled it due to bad service and have not gotten service elsewhere as of yet. I use my laptop and cellphone so I can have internet, besides, it's much cheaper ;) Sadly, the longer this situation goes on, I am realizing that the love I have for her is quickly fading. I almost wonder, at times, if this is her plan. Some of the lies and sneaky actions are SO blatent and obvious, that I have to wonder if she has a clue at all. And at this point, I don't know if it hurts more that she's messing around or if it's that she thinks I'm THIS stupid.

[tech526]

Well, not much has changed. She is still calling and txt messaging him. We are on Verizon so i can see the numbers called and that have sent/recieved text messages. I would give my right arm to be able to view the content of those, as, I'm sure they would prove/disprove what's really going on. I don't really have access to her phone, and besides, she deletes messages when they come in or are sent (yeah, I know, looks bad). She continues to maintain that there is nothing going on, and in fact, gets rather pissy when I'm not as loving and affectionate as she thinks I should be. I'm an early riser, therefore I hit the bed fairly early at night, like last night, and she has free time on her hands and generally goes out, like last night. Seems there is some excuse for her to go out every night. Again, I know how it looks, and agree. The PI guy that was supposed to be helping me seems to have fallen short, as I have not heard from him. She's a hard one to tail anyways, as she has no 'set' schedule for what she does. Someone could spend hours on end sitting and waiting just to give up and go home and THEN she would decide to go out. I guess I can't say as I blame PI guy.

I wish I had the money and the access to put a covert mic out in the studio. But with times what they are, an extra $100-150 is more than difficult to come by, and getting access to the studio when no one is around is even more difficult. Then there would be the legal aspects. Is it legal in Alabama to bug a place like that? Could the recordings be used in the divorce?

I totally feel like I'm trapped and alone in this nightmare. I have a few friends that are sympathetic, but unable or unwilling to help......:(

[Flynn]

Keep him away from your kid!!!! They are boinking and you know it. Lets just accept that. Going out equals being with him. Separation leads to divorce almost all the time. Expose your wife to all her family members. Make the affair a dirty thing also so the OM cannot be introduced after your divorce as a new good guy or friend who helped you during the divorce etc etc. Find evidence now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even if you have to take leave from work to catch them. Look you are fighting a losing battle....you need to focus on getting evidence. Use keyloggers on the computers or a GPS tracker on her car. PI's or friends that can follow. Its a war and the OM is winning right now!!!

[fitzge]

Expose, Expose, Expose!!!

Take the high road, and do not attempt to get involved with anyone else at any level -- disaster waiting to happen.

Finances are a bigger -- these clowns can burn through tens of thousands in a short period. Protect your future or you'll be eating soup for the rest of your life.

[doesmybuttlookfatinthis]

I agree. You must expose their affair to everyone. NOW!

[tech526]

The only near by family member, on her side, is her biological Dad. He lives about 6 hours from us. I have told him, but he has seen some of the behavior for himself. Her Mom lives in Ca. and is all but estranged. She rarely calls or writes and would likely never come back here, and I doubt that the OM would relocate out there, so telling her wouldn't do much good. Her brother lives here, with us (useless POS) and so does his 6 year old daughter. He would have to know what is going on, the two of them are very close.

Over the last week I have come to realize that contact with the OM has diminished considerably. I have, luckily, had few hours at work and that has allowed me some time to keep my eyes peeled. Also phone calls have dropped off dramatically. Further, I have gotten snippets from other sources that all has not been well between them. I'm sure all of you know how this breaks my heart ;)

I have also had some validation from a couple of unlikely sources. One of our mutual friends, who I have considered to side a bit more with her, but has tried to stay neutral, has had a couple conversations with me where she had nothing nice to say about my CW. She has noticed that my CW seems to try and start fights with me, especially in front of others. Also, one of my step-sons friends (he's 15) has made similar comments to me, and even stated that it doesn't look like she is trying to make things better. In some ways it's kind of comforting to know that those aspects of this are not just in my head. But it's sad and tragic that even the 15 year old that isn't around all the time can see it....

Again, if I knew I could get out without losing my daughter and house to her, I would end this. I do not wish to spend the few years I have left (I have realized that at 40 years old I am, statistically, half way through my life) living like this, nor do I want the kids to continue living this way.

I continue to find that I long to be with her, and around her, but every time I am, there seems to be some dispute, argument, or fight. Yes, I still love her, but as I have said before, that love is strained and fading. I am not blaming myself as much as before for all this, though I know it takes two to make or break a marriage, but I did not force her decision to seek someone else. There are moments when I want to hurt that bastage for coming between my wife and I, and then moments of clarity when I realize she had to allow it and that they are both at fault and hat hurting him wouldn't do any good, in fact, probably make things worse.

[doesmybuttlookfatinthis]

If I can make a suggestion. You need to write a letter to her. And then take her out somewhere private away from the kids and confront her. Now would be the time if she has had a falling out with her lover.

Tell her to let you read it before she comments. Tell her that you love her. And that you know that she has been having sex with the OM/B. Tell her that you are crushed by this. And that you wish she would just come out and admit it so that you could both decide what to do . If it was a fling, then she needs to decide if she wants to stay married. Tell her everybody knows what you're doing. Its pretty obvious. You have been angry and attacking me, and trying to start fights. You don't need to do that, you just need to talk to me. If you don't love me. Tell me. I still love you and don't want to see you hurt whatever happens. Please consider opening up to me.

If she responds great. At least you're making an effort. She may actually confess and start talking to you.

[Flynn]

I think she does this because she does not believe you will actually leave. She has lost all respect for you. Doing this in your face!!! Lokk they just found another way to talk/be with each other. Nothing has stopped. Right now you have a open marriage, without your permission but still open. Your still their for financial reasons and the kid.

[heavensheart]

Is it legal in Alabama to bug a place like that? Could the recordings be used in the divorce? (

http://www.callcorder.com/phone-recording-law-america.htm
I found this to answer your question and looks like Alabama is a state that only one party needs to know of a recording. Which means that you can record you and her talking but not her and anyone else. I wish we had better cheater laws..then maybe it would stop happening so much.

[tech526]

Does: Thank you for the suggestion, I actually tried that. All I got was anger and yelled at. She swears she's 'doing nothing wrong' and can't believe that I think her to 'be so evil'.

Flynn: Yeah, I've had that same thought.

Heavens: All we have are cell phones. My thought was to place a room mic out there. I understand the need for privacy laws, but I tend to agree with you, it would make things alot easier in situations like this.

[MuffinMan]

I have decided that, even though I still love her, I will not live like this. The problem is that if I file for divorce I'm affraid I'll lose my 6 year old daughter to her and my house as well.

Well, it does suck that a cheating c#nt can and will get full custody if she decides she wants it. Only way you can get custody is if you prove she beyond a reasonable doubt that she is an unfit mother, or she wants to give you custody. The father gets screwed.

And as far as proving her unfit, unfortunately, infidelity doesn't, in the eyes of the law, make them unfit. It should, but it doesn't.

But you will NOT lose your daughter. You will just become like the rest of us guys....we see our children every other weekend and a night a week.

As far as losing the house, she might get it, but she will have to pay you 1/2 the equity in the house and start paying the mortgage herself.

So you won't "lose" it all. She gets half the marital assets and so do you.

so if you divorce and she wants the house, you can acquire something from the marriage that is equal to half the equity in the house(not the home value, just half of the equity), or you can make it so that she has to come up with 1/2. Maybe leave your retirement alone to get the house free and clear.

But if she wants the house, then she will have to negotiate either paying you 1/2 equity, or paying it to you some other way.

But I get what you are saying, even though you both get 1/2, its like you are losing. You will, however, be GAINING your life back and being free from a cheating skank. and THAT is worth more than any asset.

Speaking of assets, she is also liable for 1/2 of any debts as well. Just remember, her lawyer will, at the start, have you paying for everything and giving up everything. Don't panic, thats the way it works. They will come up with a ridiculous list and negotiate down from that. Just remember that your lawyer knows that you are entitled to half of everything. If the negotiations don't go your way at all, your lawyer can threaten to let the court decide and the court has to divide everything up equally. Thats what my lawyer did and I told my X that I preferred that and she agreed she didn't want that.


I have no 'solid' proof of an affair, at least a lawyer says that what I have 'could make a good case, but it's circumstantial'.

You don't have to have proof of an affair to get a divorce. All that does is give you a choice of what "grounds" you want to divorce on. You can divorce her on the grounds of mental cruelty. She can deny it, but it won't do any good. Its just a "reason" to divorce, it has no bearing on how the divorce goes and how anything is divided.

She could call you a jerk, and that alone can give you a reason to file under mental cruelty.

[tech526]

Thanks so much to everyone here! My suspicions and everyones assertions were right! She's still having contact with the OM. I found a pay as you go type phone and got a glimpse of a few of the text messages. Unfortunately, I only had a few mins and felt rushed so I wasn't thinking clear, especially after seeing some of those texts, and I put the phone back instead of hanging on to it and confronting her. As I said, i only saw a few of them, but it was enough for me to realize that they have just been being more careful, hence the cell phone. Doubt I'll have another chance at the phone, so I'm in kind of a quandary as to what to do now. I could confront her, but she'd just lie and deny everything. I could continue to play her game and 'play nice' and hope I get another chance at the phone or that something else happens.

I have to say, at least at this moment, I'm not hurt as bad as I thought I'd be. But then, I have felt sure that this was the case and I guess been somewhat prepared for it. What hurts the most is that she could continue to lie to my face and tell me she loves me, then tell him the same thing. Why, after all we've been through, can't she just be honest with me? Why lie to me and use me? If she's done with me and loves him, OK, but don't string me along.....

[doesmybuttlookfatinthis]

Just tell her what the text message said, see what her reaction is. Then you have to decide what you want to do. Personally, I would tell her that since she continues to have sex with this guy, That you effectively have an open marriage. Tell her that from now on she can openly talk to the guy, and arrange dates. Tell her you will babysit for her, but that she must babysit for you. Tell her that you would like her to babysit next Friday night as you won't be coming home till sometime Saturday. Tell her that there are only three possibilities for you. Either you both refrain from extramarital affairs. You have an open marriage. Or you get a divorce. Tell her to pick one. Tell her that you need an answer right away. Because you have a lot of catching up to do.

What else are you going to do? I am not serious about the open a marriage other then it being used as a ploy. But I am serious about the divorce if she doesn't stop.

[StillinShock]

mmm....I wouldn't say a word right now to her. I would suggest securing the finances, getting your attorney on board whether you do anything right now or not (you don't want her going to the best one when the time comes)

Make sure you have enough cash for an attorney set aside....do some studying about divorce just in case you decide to go that route.

In other words, start to prepare yourself...get more proof so that you will have that as well....

No need to rush in. When confronted she will l. deny everything, 2. lie and sy it didn't mean a thing or wasn't what you thought it was 3. Say, okay it was but she is very very sorry and it won't happen again, 4. Get more secretive so that it is harder to catch...5...then you get herpes or HIV. (sorry but those are your risks)

Get you ducks in a row and then confront her. And be prepared for the sob story.

[tech526]

Well, it came to a head yesterday, on Easter. She reads me like a book and knew something was up. She kept pushing the issue. I didn't want to have it go down on Easter, but we all have limits.... I told her what I knew, but not how I knew it, nor did I tell her everything I know. Told her I was through being made to feel like 'the other man' in her life and that I want out. She hemmed and hawed some, but in the end accepted it and even made the statement that it maybe the best thing. So now we'll see. I'm out of town working for the next couple days. When I get back we are supposed to talk. Not sure whats to talk about at this point though. She made it clear that she wants the kids and without proof of wrong doing, I guess that's the way it will be. As for the house, I assume at this point she is moving out. At least that was what she indicated. There really are no other assets besides a vehicle, that one may be up in the air.

[doesmybuttlookfatinthis]

This was her choice to break up the family. Be prepared for her to change her mind. Call the boys parents and tell them thanks alot for raising a POS home wrecker. I think she will change her mind though. You can do so much better then a cheating skank like her.

[StillinShock]

.....just a heads up....have a friend check on your house while you are gone.

When a friend of mine let his wife move out when he wasn't there--well---she took everything---I mean she left him without a bed or anything!

don't want to alarm you but he would have never dreamed she would have done this...

[holikdad]

Excellent advice, don't leave her alone in the house for day's while you're away. Maybe you could even get a friend or one of your parents to stay at your home.

Often times you'll find that the cheater has been planning this for awhile so may have money squirreled away just in case.

Fight for your kids if that's what you want to happen in the end. The day's where the wife automatically gets the kids is over. Many of my friends who have gone through a divorce have gotten 50% custody without having to try real hard so you should be able to get custody too.

Withdraw all liquid cash that you can, see if you can beat her to the punch. In the best case scenario if she doesn't strip your accounts you can always put the money back, but if she does you'll have no recourse to get your $$.