Totally bludgeoned! [Archive]

demoralized

11-20-2008, 02:33 PM

My wife/GF of fifteen years announced to me 1 month ago today that she had a year long affair with our insurance man. Boom! Our ten year anny was July of 07, I spent 2 months salary on a diamond ring, our closest friends (6) went with us to witness the renewal of our wedding vows. She is 33, I am 36, the paramour is 61. WHO THE F*CK AM I? The gastly images, yea got those! The trust issues, for sure, I still love her. Am I the biggest dumbass ever?

Her dad passed when she was 14, a year later she was forced from her home, and moved 400 miles away from her friends and the only support system she really had. A year after that, her Mom was hospitalized for 19 months, and she had to go to high school, work a fulltime job and pay the bills and raise herself. How can that not screw up your head?

We have an 11 year old son, he is one of the coolest kids you could ever meet.

She wanted to tell him what she did. Is it just me or is that a clear indication of how jacked up her head is?

I have a great work-from-home job, money...no issue, time at home, no issue. I spend time with her and our son very regularly.

How do I get where I need to go? How do I decide where I need to go?

I'm so confused by all of this, let me have it!

sadpatricia

11-20-2008, 03:11 PM

Whatever problems she had growing up, she broke her commitment, her promise to you that she made through her initial wedding vows and the renewal of them. I too had a traumatic childhood, but I didn't use it as an excuse to cheat. My husband had a fine childhood and he chose to cheat. The past may have had some effect on the type of person she is, but she chose to be a liar and a cheater before she tried to discuss the attraction to someone else with you. Before the problem could be addressed, she made a choice and the choice was to lie, cheat, and live a double life. The fact she wants to come clean to your 11 year old who is in no real position to understand the problem is puzzling. Is this her way of handling the guilt? Is she using this for selfish purposes: that somehow your child should be told as an act of "cleansing" for herself and a way, perhaps, to take the attention off of her bad act and now make the new issue the appropriateness of spilling her guts to an 11 year old? Does she want to leave the marriage/family and she wants your son to know why before she does? What's the point? She might need some serious counseling... As for you, it all seems to be about her and her needs and her past and whether she should tell your kid. What about you? Tell her what you need and want regarding yourself and your child and ask her kindly to take your feelings into consideration this ONE important time before she selfishly seeks to destroy not only your relationship, but the innocence of your son.
sadpatricia

Ravage

11-20-2008, 03:14 PM

I'm sorry your here, and i feel your pain. I would start asking the hard questions, why she cheat? why this man? Does she want out of your marriage? Does she intend to be faithful and no more cheating of any kind?

Or is she acting crazy, going out with her girlfriends, ignoring your feelings, and still talking to the OM?

The thing is if you knew about the cheating why did you renew your vows, I couldn't in good faith look the woman in her eyes and know what she did. The renewal vows meant nothing!

How long the affair was going on for?

Skirtchaser

11-20-2008, 06:00 PM

There's no telling what all kinds of acts she did for this old fecker. No telling how many times they did it. Nothing in her past made her spread her legs for him. She's feckin with your head and his too.

You will probably try to cling to her and make this work. You will try to accept part of the blame for her action. But when you come home from work, make her brush her teeth and gargle before you kiss her. Ya just never know where that old fecker's been, or how many time you kissed her when he had been there. :eek:

breemood

11-20-2008, 07:06 PM

SHE RENEWED VOWS WITH YOU AND WAS CHEATING:mad: Excuse me what a tramp. A year long affair. I want to throw up. I am so sorry you are here.

StillinShock

11-20-2008, 07:24 PM

When we say we feel your pain---we really really do. Last year I found out that my H was sleeping with women for the past years. It didn't take too long for me to realize that it was not about me but about his huge problem/lack of character/ need for a "thrill" etc. (We will be married for 29 years). What she did is not about you or something you did or did not do.
Do not try to figure out "what went wrong" or why she did it. She is messed up in the character and morality department. period. leave it at that.
Why am I still married? (we are separated)...well, I have no answer for that one except I am still in shock--and it has been almost a year and a half!!
I know that I should move on but my feet are in concrete. Unable to let him come back and unable to move forward and file for divorce. I loved my H so very much as we were happy--but now I have to see him for who he really is--someone who cared so little for me that he would do this and risk all that we had together.
You are in shock too. Don't make any major decisions now or committments. Sit tight and take your time. I know guys aren't big on counseling but it would really really help keep you sane. Cry if you can--I am sure that you have because this is so heartbreaking. We never figure it will happen to us.
Glad you found this forum....

Skirtchaser

11-20-2008, 09:54 PM

I guess you saved a ton of money switching to Geico. Is your wife switching companies too?

Your going to cling to this slu.t wife, you've already offered up the excuse for what she is doing to you. Now what? Is your son going to cheat on his wife later in life because of this trauma in his? She's set a fine example for him.
And he know's far more than what you think he does. Kids are smart and sense things.

You think you are going to be able to fix her. But all that's going to happen is she will get better at not getting caught. She will do this to you again at some point in time. Maybe years later. This is a cold hard fact. You need to know the truth about what your dealing with.

demoralized

11-21-2008, 04:05 AM

The affair started 4 months after our 10 year anniversary and renewal of our vows. She may be what you say she is, I may find that out the hard way. Yes I am trying to help her. We are both going to counceling. I am in a lot of pain. I hope we can overcome this, but I feel like she thinks I should just let it go.

Skirtchaser

11-21-2008, 05:13 AM

I wish you luck, faces change but the stories are the same. I really hope she will change. So many don't. We all have been through the pain.

demoralized

11-21-2008, 07:15 AM

I appreciate all of the sentiments and wishes of wellness. I feel like I need to make some changes too. I need to devalue sex. Clearly, it doesn't mean as much to her as it does to me. I don't really want to do that but sex is just sex, it's not love. Not to blame something else but, society as a whole has devalued sex, why have I had so much trouble following suit? If my wife and I have our priorities misaligned, or out of order, how can we succeed together? Don't we have to place the same level of importance on each aspect of our relationship? I guess I should have realized this a long time ago. Why do I have to be the one to change my values? She's the one that invited another man to take my place in our marriage, and our love life. Did that happen because I didn't place equal values on the same things she does? Is there something wrong with me, or is there something wrong with her? Probably both. I'm struggling with so many things. Peace of mind is awfully hard to come by these days. We are going away together this weekend, I hope it turns out well for both of us.

breemood

11-21-2008, 08:01 AM

We all contribute to the marital problems, we are after all we are human. But the character flaws that allowed her to cheat and you to remain faithful are there. It isn't your fault. We all are capable of doing the wrong thing( I do all the time especially when it comes to my anger issue)but there is something that only some of us possess when it comes to not crossing boundaries. You have to do what is best for you and your family, but you should educate yourself on the statistics of survival, what it takes to survive and how long and hard the work will be. God Bless.

KATURN

11-21-2008, 09:41 AM

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOUR MORALS!!!!! I just need to scream this from the hilltops. You looked at intimacy with ur wife as sacred there is nothing wrong with you for that. She devalued that intimacy by her affair. It is her soul with the holes in it. It is the character flaw in her it will be and is her problem. She had the problem before you came along and she wll continue to have it long after. She is th eone who needs to face herself head on and search her soul and be honest with herself and find healing for herself. Like somone said here many times a cheaters fills the empty void in themselves with thrill seeking etc. My ex would selcet women ain piblic places and approach them for conversdations which he hoped would turn to sex one night stands. This had nothing to do with me...it is a flaw in himself. I valued our relationship I was not wrong, it is his cross to bear. Do not devalue yourself for loving your wife...she will pay the price for not recognizing how pricless that commitment was.

Skirtchaser

11-21-2008, 03:39 PM

If you compromise your principles, life will deal you more misery.

Sorry but you won't find what your looking for here in this site.

demoralized

11-21-2008, 03:42 PM

I hear what your saying, and I've come to recognize that I am not at fault in this. She did this, not me. I am now afraid of other things. Over the last few days, I have begun to notice her physical flaws, ones I had never noticed before, one's I saw past to the beauty inside. Is that normal? I am now concerned that someday down the road the opportunity will present itself for me to be with someone else and that I might see it as justifiable to do considering what she did to me. Is this normal too? That would make me no better than her, I understand that. How do I realistically resist the temptation to exact some kind of revenge? If that did happen, it wouldn't really hurt her as bad as she has hurt me would it? She did it first right? The cat is out of the bag, metaphorically speaking. She would just probably think to herself, oh well I deserve it, right? This sh!t is so complicated, my freakin brain hurts from thinking about it. My companion betrayed me, how will I get through all of the agony?

Skirtchaser

11-22-2008, 07:17 AM

Yes those feelings are normal in the discovery stage. No it won't hurt her as she did you. If you revenge cheat, you will regret it. It's good that you realize that you do not share in the blame for her actions. Dogs is right about her childhood, that did'nt excuse her cheating.

If anything, trauma in her past life should have made her more appreciative of you and more loyal and honest. She chose to take her path, and cheating is nothing more than dishonesty. A counselor can't put honesty where it was supposed to be in the first place. You can't fix her, and you can't make her love you the way you love her.

Not only has she put your son's home life in jeopardy, but what if the om has been banging another sl.ut who has aids or hepatitus? What of that? She's risked your health and ability to provide a future for your son. A cat is a better mother than that. Your son deserves better than this. You deserve better than this.

Ravage

11-22-2008, 10:40 AM

Dont have a Revenge Affair, if your going to leave just leave. Leave for yourself and your own state of mind.

The thing is can you trust her? is she doing anything to rebuild trust? if not then you have your answer right there.

I think you should employ the 180 and see where it goes. Let her come to you. She should be the one kissing your ass for forgiveness and repent.

I know her meotions could be out of wack, the fog, or giult but she needs to take that step towards you. If she doesnt then why fight for her?

demoralized

11-24-2008, 06:53 AM

Can I trust her? I really don't know to be honest. She lied to me for so long, and then gave me the truth in pieces once she had to come clean. She did let me read the letter that he wrote to her, that's something I think. Her head is messed up for sure, this I know. Our weekend together went ok. We had a huge blow up before we left, I asked her about things and she went off, saying she just wants one day where she doesn't feel like a dirt-bag. She said that physical attraction is not important without emotional attention. So then, do I have to worry forever that any slob that pays attention to her will be rewarded with sex with her? I mean that's just how I feel, you know. Sex is a reward for paying attention to her needs and feelings, that seems totally screwed up to me. She has no self esteem, clearly, and she sees things in a very lopsided way. She takes no solace in what she has, she only envies what she doesn't. We have an old home we've been fixing up, but the things we have done bring her no sense of pride or accomplishment, she only sees what has yet to be done. She told me she has made sacrifices for me that have been un-returned. We have a boat, she feels like it is mine and she didn't have a say in buying it. It's old and was very cheap, yet I still talked with her for 4 days about it before going to get it. I never go out without her and or her and our son. It's a family event. A lot of time her and I go out just the 2 of us. In June I hit a windfall at work and got a gigantic bonus, I spent less than half of the money I got on a motorcycle, the rest went into the checking account. I talked with her about it for nearly a month before buying it. These are huge issues to her, she has brought them up several times, calling them impulse buys, If we sold the bike, boat and my old truck, we wouldn't have enough to pay half of what we owe on her car. We have spent almost ten grand on the house so far this year and I took vacation time to work on a massive project this spring. Am I missing something? Is she just materialistic? I am not going to throw every dime we earn at her, that will NOT work. We both deserve nice things and she has them as much as I do. These things can't be the real reason for this, she has to have something wrong with her head to think they even could have been a factor, right?

Flynn

11-24-2008, 07:54 AM

Sell the bike and the boat!!! Money should be spent on the family. Her car transports your kid so its not like the boat or the bike are frivilous items.

Skirtchaser

11-24-2008, 08:33 AM

Feck her, you deserve things too. She's taking away from the fact of her cheating. This is the only issue, nothing you did gave her the right to spread her legs for someone who gave her a little attention.

And if your son enjoys the boat then it is not frivilous. I have spent quality time with my grands on mine. You've got one selfish bi.tch on your hands.

Hawk

11-24-2008, 11:28 AM

Demoralized,

I read your posts - and I feel your pain. I've been there and (so far) I'm still married a couple of years now after I found out about my wife's affair. So, if you want to stay married - it's still possible; but you are going to go through a process of grieving for your your marriage - because the marriage you knew and trusted is over. You will have to re-make a new marriage if you want to continue with the current wife.

My experience (and I'm still going through the process myself - got caught on anger for a COUPLE OF YEARS) of this process is:

Denial, numbness, and shock

Bargaining
(my experience - maybe lots of sex with the wife will fix this... not.)

Depression
After recognizing the true extent of my loss, I begain to experience depressive symptoms. I couldn't sleep, kept thinking about what happened, lost weight, felt sorry for myself, etc. I've only seldom been depressed in my life - and depression sucks.

Anger
I decided to keep on with my marriage for my kids - but I was angry with my wife. Now, I decided she gets no sex and the cold shoulder for the rest of our marriage. I'm still pretty angry - but seeing what is happening (the process) is helping me move through to acceptance.

Acceptance
Time allows the individual an opportunity to resolve the range of feelings that surface. This grieving process is normal. You can't really expect to feel better until the loss of your marriage becomes integrated into your life experience.

Bottom line: Some of the bad feelings are going to come back at your throughout the rest of your marriage - it's never really over. Something is going to come up - and the anger/depression/loss will get re-triggered.

Basically, this is going to suck for a long time. I often wish that rather than go through the process, I just divorced my wife right away. But... I'm staying for the kids and hoping for the best with respect to my marriage.

demoralized

11-24-2008, 11:52 AM

Selfish is an understatement. She is a score keeper, big time. Problem is, to her, cleaning the bathrooms is a touchdown and mowing the lawn is a field goal. She overvalues her contributions to our life and undervalues mine. She starts the laundry and I finish it, but to her she does the laundry. I cook 2-3 times a week. I load and unload the dishwasher just as much as she does. I help her clean the house, but in fairness she does more of it than I do. But I am not, nor do I let our son be, a slob. The house work would be a lot more if I weren't so insistent that He and I pickup after ourselves. Then it just gets stupid, she generalizes **** and says I don't help her with things around the house. If I point out things I do, she'll say, well you didn't want to, you did it because you wanted to shut me up, or felt obligated because I asked you to.

It's all rediculous, I grew up in a house where my father didn't touch ****, and I swore I would never be that way, because my Mom worked too, and did way to much. So I have always prided myself for being a way above average husband in the area of sharing the household duties. I know it's all BS, she can't face the fact that her head isn't right, she hasn't come to grips with this fully yet. Although she did admit the other day that no problems in our life no matter how big or small justifies what she has done to us. Those were her exact words. Still she is clinging to the "attention and communication" excuse. I hope that through MC, she will come to understand that she didn't communicate with me, that I was neglected by her not the other way around. I admit I got very distant and cold, and that was not the right thing to do, but she has to see that she forced me into that position, otherwise, staying together isn't going to work. I do Love her, without doubt, but I am not going to be a doormat. The books and the therapists can tell me I share some blame in all of this, but the time for all of that, she let pass. The time to discuss our marriage, and things she wanted more of was before the affair happened. The validity of any complaints she had of my participation or lack there of in our life together have been made invalid by the affair.

I am growing stronger with each day, I have accepted that this may not work, but I am still going to give her another chance to make things right. She knows she's got the cross to bare, and the heavier work load to earn my forgiveness and trust. We'll find out if she's up to the challenge.

Skirtchaser

11-24-2008, 09:09 PM

Any counselor that tells you that you share the blame for her affair, fire their a.ss. This is one of the most fundamental lies a quack will tell you.

Her affair is not a shared thing or an owned thing. No matter what was in her head when she cheated, she knew it was wrong. Marriage problems are no excuse. Sounds to me she ought to be grateful that you help her so much. You did'nt say or I missed it but is she a stay at home mom?

All these issues are still clouding the issue that she cheated. With all the other issues, I think at some point you will get enough and end this misery. Don't let her use your son, that will be next.

demoralized

11-25-2008, 06:43 AM

She works a full time job, she always has. Things are getting heated now, maybe it's unhealthy, maybe it's a step in the right direction, not sure. She can't face her demons, her scarred past and her inability to open up, so she is using any other excuse she can find, all the other stuff, and even mistakes I made in our marriage 11 years ago. When our son was a baby, I was in a dark place, and spent time away from home drinking after work. Never was I with another woman, 6 blocks away at a buddies house drinking beer and playing video games, stupid I know. It hurt her, we have talked about it before, and I guess it was someway of trying to not grow up when I should have, fearing that I would turn out like my father. It lasted a few months, and when we bought our house a few months later I put all of that behind me, but she never forgave me.

holikdad

11-25-2008, 08:10 AM

Remember this time is all about you and her ability to make it right. If you want to stay in your marriage she is the one who has to put forth almost all of the effort. My W is doing that in my relationship.

We all make mistakes, men and women, your wife choose the wrong path by having an affair and not talking to you. Even if you were the absolute worst husband in the world, she should of asked for a divorce, then found someone else. So don't take any blame for her affair, she has terrible morals and low self esteem to do what she did.

demoralized

11-26-2008, 07:57 AM

I appreciate the words of encouragement. I know that my mistakes in the past contributed to problems in our marriage. I understand that no marital problems that exist make having an affair rational, or justified, not even remotely. She had a hundred alternatives to having an affair. How long will it take her to understand these things? Will she ever? Our relationship was a rock, it has now been broken, and we CAN glue it back together, but it won't EVER be a whole rock again. At best, it can only be the two pieces, held together by an antidote for betrayal. My outlook today is dismal.

StillinShock

11-27-2008, 09:52 AM

When I think of our marriage I think of Humpty Dumpty and how all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put Humpty together again after his great fall. And my H had a great fall.
It is common to want to try to work it out--there are even honey moon phases of this before reality sinks in. I would suggest the book "When your Lover is a liar"..It really helped me come to terms about my H's lying and what it meant.
You'll go through the stages I'm afraid---some of us do more quickly than others--I can finally say divorce and I am able to start taking steps but have not filed yet. Not sure why. Just frozen. But I know I cannot go back to a marriage that didn't exist. I was the only one married. Do I really want that the rest of my life? He didn't wear his ring, basically was dating, going out and having sex over and over with other women...No, I was the only one married. He does not feel about me the way I did about him. How does one start to create a relationship for the future based on that? My H continued to lie about other things---it was only a matter of time before he was back online and I'm sure the next step will be more cheating. I don't want to get herpes, syphillis, or AIDS....All of us really really really need to think about this if we decide to stay in a relationship with a cheater. I talk every day to people who found out when they got herpes. And another found out when she was pregnant and had aids from her cheating husband. Now she and her baby will die.
No. We have to think long and hard about forgiveness. Good luck to you--I know these things are hard to hear. I would not recommend even considering to stay with a former cheater if they don't at least agree to take a polygraph test twice a year or whenever you ask. When my H tried to balk on that condition I knew what he planned to do if he couldn't agree to a $300 test to prove he had stopped.
Try suggesting it and see her reaction. If she cries "what about trust?" you'll have your answer.

Ravage

11-27-2008, 12:56 PM

What are you gonna do now demoralized? Work it out or start by yourself and move on? The holidays are rough!

demoralized

11-28-2008, 08:16 AM

tijaco

11-28-2008, 08:40 AM

For now, we are staying together and trying to work things out. We had one MC session 2 weeks ago and more scheduled. She has begged for my forgiveness, and tells me she loves me, and that I am the only one she ever really loved. She knows this is her mistake, not mine, that she had options other than cheating, and chose to ignore them. I am giving her the chance to make it up to me, but as I told her, if I get 1 indication that her cheating is not 100% in her past, I'm gone forever. I also told her, if she can't work through this without blaming me, I'm out. I will not listen to that BS. She has the flaw the let her cheat.

You've got to mean it. This is something you really have to go through with if she messes up again. If you just threaten and stall, she will take it for weakness and continue to screw you over. I'm thinking she will do it again anyways. She has too many lame excuses trying to justify her betrayal. Also the fact she wanted to tell your little boy is awful. What a selfish abusive woman she is. Poor little boy....
Keep the boat and motorcycle darlin'.

Skirtchaser

11-28-2008, 06:55 PM

Hey Ti, good to see ya posting. Missed ya. Hope all is well.

tijaco

11-28-2008, 08:03 PM

Hey Chaser. Doing well.

Ravage

11-28-2008, 11:10 PM

Keep us updated Demoralized. I think if you stick on to it you recover, one bad setback you might not, keep your eyes open.

demoralized

11-29-2008, 07:46 AM

Thanks again everyone, Yea Rav I know and told her as much. I'll give her a chance to EARN a second chance, but it might take forever, and she will not get a third. I asked for her to repeat those words back to me, and she did. Keep your fingers crossed for both of us, she needs help too.

demoralized

12-01-2008, 07:40 AM

The weekend was a disaster, it started good, we spent time together and I felt comfortable with things. We had a big get together at our home and I drank too much and went to bed at 10. Everyone badgered her about what was wrong with me, oh well. She cried all morning yesterday, saying she was trash and garbage, asking me how I could possibly love her after what she had done to me. She offered apologies to me all weekend, saying she couldn't believe herself, and that she was crazy for taking me for granted. She told me I was the most beautiful loving man in the world and she didn't deserve me. She swore to me she would spend the rest of her life making this up to me, and making me feel special again, as special as I had made her feel in the past, as special and wonderful as I deserve to feel, the way she should have made me feel all along.

I don't feel special, I feel un-special, undeserving of faithful love, a lesser man than any of my friends whose wives faithfully love and care for them.

Skirtchaser

12-01-2008, 08:01 AM

Yea I got pretty looped over the holidays too. Mine was for fun tho.

Your starting to share her blame. Yea all those things she said sounded good. But we've heard this all before. There is no way your going to leave this woman. I hope for your sake she really is remorseful. I wish you luck.

demoralized

12-01-2008, 01:35 PM

MuffinMan

12-01-2008, 02:56 PM

No I am not going to leave her without trying to put things back together. If I was, I would have already. I hope we can work it out. I still love her but not unconditionally now. Even a broken man has limits.

Well the "putting things back together" really rests at HER feet, not yours. yes, you have a part to play in this marriage, but the burden of making work is on her for the most part.

So ask yourself this question, can you ever completely put out of your mind what she did to you? Can you ever completely put out of your mind the visions of her spreading her legs for another man?

If the answer is "no", then why bother with this marriage? You say you love a woman that f#cked another guy? Believe me, I understand the desperation and the horrifying idea of having to go through a divorce. I was once where you were. But the more time that went by, the more clearly I started thinking....."why do I want to be married to someone I can't trust?" "why do I want to be married to someone when everytime I look at her all I see is 'cheater' or 'wh0re' written across her forehead?"

Ask yourself, can you live life with a person that you will always wonder about or feel the need to check up on? Some say that they will heal with time. And I think someone can heal over this where they no longer feel sorry for themselves. But the visions will NEVER go away. They WILL come back from time to time. Only way I saw to get rid of those visions was to get rid of the person that caused them. And it was the best move I ever made. I can honestly say I don't have those visions. And if for some reason I thought about it because something might remind me, I don't care. It doesn't bother me. I realize that she is now some other poor slobs problem and not mine any longer.

So why would you settle for a life with someone that f#cked another man behind your back? if you say love, I'm gonna puke!

Not getting down on you my man, but trying to get you to realize, you are in a desperation phase right now. The thought of doing what you think you might really like to do is horrifying. Believe me, I know. so ask yourself, do you want to be married to a cheater? If she spread her legs for a 61 year old insurance salesman, god help you if she gets a little attention paid to her by a younger man who she finds attractive.

MuffinMan

12-01-2008, 02:58 PM

The weekend was a disaster, it started good, we spent time together and I felt comfortable with things. We had a big get together at our home and I drank too much and went to bed at 10. Everyone badgered her about what was wrong with me

And did she tell them because he is married to an unscrupulous cheater?

did she tell them it was because she betrayed you in the worst way possible?

demoralized

12-01-2008, 03:17 PM

I hear ya Muf, you may be right. In simplest terms, this is how I feel right now. I do recognize that I am in a depression mode right now, which is why I know I am not capable of making rational decisions at the moment. I can't act wisely now, based on the way I might feel or might not feel months or years down the road. If it comes to that I will leave her and start life anew.

I appreciate that your trying to help, which is why I keep coming back. I am listening to what everyone has to say with an open mind.

burgerrr

12-02-2008, 08:17 AM

Forgiveness is possible. Marriage as it was before is not. My guess is she will build resentment toward you for holding her accountable in the future. She will have a time limit, and say 'why can't you let it go'? She will cheat again, because every time you have marital stress she will dream of how wonderful it would be to run away.

Divorce is scary, especially now with the economy so bad. But like Muffin said why be married to someone who will always dream of the grass is greener. Trust is so important and often ignored in our relationships. So the bottom line is this: Can you live with a vastly weakened form of trust?

Adam Bomb 1701

12-02-2008, 11:40 AM

My guess is she will build resentment toward you for holding her accountable in the future. She will have a time limit, and say 'why can't you let it go'? She will cheat again, because every time you have marital stress she will dream of how wonderful it would be to run away.
My ex was accused of going to mental hospitals to "run away" from her responsibilities at home. Even though she chose to be a stay-at-home mom, she was unfulfilled and unhappy. She spent a good deal of the year 2000 in various mental hospitals. In one of those hospital stays, she developed an attachment to a male patient, kind of forgetting she was a married woman. My mom, who was 75 at the time, stayed with my son and me, so I could go to work and she would look after him. Eventually, I got my son into a before and after school program, a necessity as my ex would be away for two months, and my mom was getting stressed out. In those two months I learned to get along without her very well. In fact, I was quite disappointed when she came home. I didn't really want her there any more, and I knew that things would get a lot tougher. Which they did, and within eight weeks, she was back in the hospital. (I went to see the movie The Perfect Storm one afternoon, not knowing that an even worse storm would brew at home the next day.) Six months after her last hospital stay, she was cheating. The rest has been posted in other pages on this website.
Accountability is something they never accept. The cheating is never their fault; it's always yours.

We had one MC session 2 weeks ago and more scheduled. She has begged for my forgiveness, and tells me she loves me, and that I am the only one she ever really loved.
I've said this before - Marriage counseling is a crock; the counselor is an apologist for the cheater. You will be blamed for her cheating, as you didn't do enough to make her happy.
As for her telling you she loves you - just words, my friend. Just words. My ex told me she never really loved me; this was after 14 years of marriage and one child together. It reinforced my hunch that she didn't really want me, she just wanted a husband. I was the fool who just happened to come along at the right (wrong?) time.

I am in a lot of pain. I hope we can overcome this, but I feel like she thinks I should just let it go.
Yeah, so she can cheat again. Cheaters are oblivious to the pain they cause, and always try and deflect the blame.

demoralized

12-02-2008, 11:58 AM

All of this is terribly disheartening. Am I wasting my time? Has any couple ever gotten through this and come out on the other side truly, healthier and happier, or is it all just BS to sell books?

KATURN

12-02-2008, 12:11 PM

The best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour. What was she like before the marriage. Has she cheated in her past? My ex chaeted on nearly everyone he had longterm since the age of 25. It is deep seated in him. He cannot change. If she has a history of this in her past the odds for her making good on promises in not high.

burgerrr

12-02-2008, 01:35 PM

All of this is terribly disheartening. Am I wasting my time? Has any couple ever gotten through this and come out on the other side truly, healthier and happier, or is it all just BS to sell books?

You have to understand, that your marriage will be different even if you 'work' through it. She needs to fully understand your pain and doubt about her intentions. She must do everything in her power to alleviate your concern about any of her activities and do it without complaint. You and her must understand it will take years to gain even a portion of the trust back.

Do not use any counselor who puts any blame on you. It is important that she understand why she did it and what needs to change in her to prevent it again. You may be able to help, but it is her responsibility.

Just don't deceive yourself. It is going to be a lot of hard work. Hold her resposible at all times and if she doesn't leave her.

demoralized

12-02-2008, 02:15 PM

Again to make the record known, the affair started 4 months after we renewed our vows. It doesn't make it any less painful for me, but she did not knowingly lie in those vows. I have given her the ultimatum, understand and fix your character or I will leave. As for our therapist, don't know yet, we've only had one session. But it was her that suggested it, reluctantly, thinking that I would refuse to go. Our marital problems may have been BOTH of our faults, but, I was NOT the one that broke the sacred trust. If our shrink even attempts to insinuate that I am remotely culpable in this affair, I'm OUT! Here is one of the "hope indicators" as I have labeled them for purposes of dealing with the anguish as it relates to staying with her or leaving. I said to her the other night,....Imagine if you had come to me last year, and told me what you were feeling, let me know what was going on inside, and how bad things had gotten for you, and suggested marriage counseling then. Sure it would have been tough, and I would have been upset, without doubt, disappointed in us both that we had let things get that bad. But you would have snapped my head enough to get the lines of communication going, and I would have agreed to working diligently on my half of our relationship to do whatever it was I needed to do. You didn't give me that chance, you cheated instead, to avoid conflict, and arguments. Here we are a year later with worse conflict, infidelity, a demolished sense of faith, a damaged sex life, disturbing feelings of inferiority on my part, and shame and guilt on yours, for what? Avoiding an argument? Where would we be now if you had done that then? A years worth of MC could have done more than a decades worth for us before an affair took place.

She sat silent for a second, and then began to cry like I have never witnessed in our 15 years together.

sadpatricia

12-02-2008, 02:44 PM

Demoralized:
Are you sure you know exactly WHAT she is crying about? You have got to be a little more skeptical of her motives after all that has come to light. She could be crying ONLY for herself. Her tears may have absolutely nothing to do with the damage she has caused you and your relationship. People that are normal and compassionate and intelligent, like you seem to be in your posts, have trouble recognizing that people they love do not love in the same way as they do. The fact she chose to cheat was NOT to avoid confrontation and arguments - that's what she is saying now. She chose to cheat because she was turned on by somebody else and was not thinking ONE WHIT about you and your relationship at the time. I can tell it is very hard for you to understand the selfishness on the part of your wife. I am exactly the same way with my ex. You wife is NOT like you. She is more selfish, she is a cheater, a liar, she's secretive. The fact she didn't come to you before she cheated is because there were NO REAL problems before she did. They are all invented on the part of the cheater to allay guilt and require you to share it. Find a counselor that talks about the need for INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY in a relationship. Look, after all the posts on this site and all the anguish and soul-searching I have done and countless others have done, I would say the biggest reason people cheat is they get bored. Even is the sex is great and you have date nights and you renewed your vows four months ago and all that, boredom seeps in. Those who succumb to temptation are selfish and weak and not to be trusted. Down deep they know it. If you can accept your wife like this, go for it. But, she should have stuck up for you big time over the holidays and shared some of the blame for your low spirits in some way in front of others. She sounds selfish to me. It's OK to love a selfish person, but never trust her again...especially when she "cries the hardest" ever in your relationship.
sadpatricia

demoralized

12-03-2008, 07:36 AM

You're right SP, I can't be sure what she is crying about. She may indeed only be crying for herself. I can tell you however, after almost 16 years together, I know for certain when she is lying and telling the truth. She hid the affair from me very well. She has not been able to hide the details though. I know that she is wondering if this really will work or not, but so am I. I don't feel like I should be mad about her uncertainty, when I feel the same way. She says she is feeling awful, I told her she should and that she brought that on herself. Only time will tell my friends.

MuffinMan

12-03-2008, 10:22 AM

Again to make the record known, the affair started 4 months after we renewed our vows.

What??? 4 months after renewed vows? Sorry my man, then she isn't committed to the marriage then.

I say kick her worthless ass out now that we know this little tidbit.

Skirtchaser

12-03-2008, 07:03 PM

Muffin,

do they ever listen? Our work is never done. If they only knew what we know. :cool:

demoralized

12-05-2008, 06:28 AM

It would be great to know exactly what to do. Loan me your crystal ball.

Skirtchaser

12-05-2008, 07:36 AM

I live inside my crystal ball. :)

demoralized

12-05-2008, 08:51 AM

Sweet, got central air?

Anyway thanks again everyone, I do not mean to miscount the pitfalls that those of you who have been dealing with this longer than I, are warning me of.

MC went decent, still skeptically patient. Doc focused on her and her internal issues that lead to cheating. Which was good I thought, not talking too much about problems in the marriage. Score-keeping did come up. Maybe we have a good one, too soon to tell. Got homework and all that.

As much as I know I am "clinging" to the hope we can work this out, I am with equal strength, hanging on to the refusal to accept my role in this happening. Maybe that's wrong, unhealthy and will lead to our demise, but answer me this. What do I say when someone tells me I should have been a better husband to a terrible wife? This hasn't happened yet, but I am afraid it might, and scared of how I will react.

None of my actions or in-actions during the time the affair was taking place are subject to any scrutiny, IMO.

demoralized

12-05-2008, 11:15 AM

Let me pose this to you all.

Are some people so instinctively wired to be problem solvers, that when there are none, they create them, to immerse themselves in what they view as their purpose for being?

I only ask because, the timing of all of this is part of the shock.

We have a wonderful son, straight A student, totally self efficient, mature beyond his years. Our friends jokingly refer to him as the youngest 30 year old they know. Can you say maternal separation anxiety?

Our relationship was obviously strained, but by what? Nothing that hasn't always been there, small crap ya know. Run of the mill everyday married life stuff.

Financially, as previously discussed, no worries. Nice home, cars, everything is practically paid for. Her car, mortgage, and utilities, That's it. Our friends all have six figure mortgages, we'll have the house paid off in less than 5 years. Investments, college for the boy, retirement for us, untouched for years, and doing well (all things considered with the economy). Legitimate chance to retire by 45.

It's pathetic, but I'm really starting to believe that given her family history, parents, brother, and both sisters divorced at least once, it all just turned out to be too good to be true, or believable.

Not enough drama, tragedy, or crisis? **** it, manufacture some.

tijaco

12-05-2008, 06:58 PM

I see nothing strained in what you're posting. Your marriage sounds pretty normal. Your financial situation is better than normal. Now your wife is another story. I'm sure she probably thinks she's been living in hell. Such a boring secure existance she has.
Maybe she watches too much T.V.

People walk around thinking those "stars" are having such a good time. They are living in the best houses, have the cutest kids, have the most gorgeous mates. Oh and of course their sex lives are like an explosion of TNT going off in the bedroom every night.
Remember the report of Angelina's shrieks:rolleyes: I'm sure women everywhere were looking at their husbands that evening thinking huh, I haven't shrieked since I don't know when!
So freakin' ridiculous. I remember thinking that skank probably found a big hairy spider in the bath tub. :D

The media makes us think we need constant stimulation in some kind of way and if you aren't getting it then you aren't getting what you deserve!
Why the heck do you think so many are walking around on prozac?

They can't figure out why they aren't deliriously happy all the time like the folks on T.V. so something must be wrong.
Lots of people want instant gratification now. And baby it better be the best feeling possible.
Many people are empty and instead of looking appreciatively in their own backyard as Dorothy so elegantly put it so many years ago, they are constantly sniffing around at what everyone else is doing and wondering what they are missing.
I feel for you. I feel for your son. It is such an awful thing to do to a spouse but especially when kids are involved. I'm sorry but it just shows such unconcern for the children. It makes me sick.

Just my humble opinion.

Skirtchaser

12-05-2008, 07:09 PM

Skirtchaser

12-05-2008, 07:12 PM

StillinShock

12-05-2008, 07:27 PM

She swore to me she would spend the rest of her life making this up to me, and making me feel special again, as special as I had made her feel in the past,....

Demoralized, you have to know--they all swear this. My H looked me in the eye and said he would swear on the bible (I knew he was lying but figured I would save his soul so I stopped him) that he wasn't cheating anymore. Of course, a year later I discovered that he truly was lying and had been ready to swear on the bible of all things! One person had their H swear on the life of their child for heavens sake!

Here is your problem--and mine as I see it from the other posts and the people who have been through this:
Refrain
The spouse cheats.
Verse I
We discover it and are shocked. Hurt beyond are wildest imagination.
But the cheating spouse lies, swears it will never happen again and that they will spend the rest of their life making it up to us. And they cry.
We love them deeply. We want to believe them.
We try very very very very hard to forgive and put it out of our mind.
We are unable to put it out of our mind but we take them back. We also suspect they will cheat again. But we warn them we will leave them if they ever do again and of course, that should do it.
Refrain
They cheat again (or just lie and then cheat again)
Verse II
We are not as shocked. We kick ourself for believing them.
(now here is where the song changes sometimes---some of us have to hear the refrain over and over before the final verse....Refrain Cheat again with STD thrown in
Final verse
We're divorcing. We are crushed. Why did we trust them for so long, we ask? All those wasted years. Now I have to tell my next person that I have herpes.
UGHHHHH

I'm sorry but after a year and a half of listening to people who's spouse cheats, I have not heard a different song. And I have been asking. Oh---one of my friends started her song (refrain--he cheated)....and then she didn't know anything about his continued cheating until just recently--28 years later. She's moving to the final verse pretty fast.

If you let this song play out--just remember that SNS suggested condoms.
:(

StillinShock

12-05-2008, 07:37 PM

demoralized---as you can see, I'm trying hard to get the strength to leave...I do not want to be that person that gets herpes or worse...And if he loved me so much and I mean the world to him---well, he doesn't know the meaning of love as it has everything to do with honesty, faithful, kind, etc according to the letter to the Corritheans (sp)...
I'm very afraid that the cheaters do not know what love is---just saying the words because if they loved like we do then they would never be unfaithful. I could not have cheated on my H unless I had fallen out of love with him if even then. And this is why we can't imagine how they could do this to us---we can't imagine because we love them and we just think they feel the same toward us.

Skirtchaser

12-05-2008, 08:07 PM

Lee Roy Parnell
Miscellaneous
What Kind of Fool Do You Think I Am
Here you come knocking on my door
When you said you don't need me anymore
Now do you really think I'm crazy enough
To go throwing my good heart after bad love

Chorus
What kind of fool do you think I am
I ain't fallin for you all over again
I ain't playin a game that I know I can't win
What kind of fool do you think I am
Oh, what kind of fool do you think I am

I was lost in your love and I got burned
You hurt me one time, I finally learned
Now that I know what your lovin can do
[ Lee Roy Parnell Lyrics are found on www.songlyrics.com ]
Who do you think you're talkin to

Repeat Chorus

Fallin in love with you just brought me sorrow
You'll leave me smilin tonight and cryin tomorrow

Don't you come knocking on my door
'Cause you know I don't need you anymore
Now do you really think I'm crazy enough
To go throwin my good heart after bad love

Repeat Chorus Twice

Skirtchaser

12-06-2008, 07:17 AM

tijaco

12-06-2008, 08:41 AM

Heyyyy, mine is like an explosion, just not as often. Remember what Toby Keith said, Not as good as I once was, but Im as good as I ever was.

LOL:D Yep, I here ya! I love that song.

Now don't double dog dare me now. We use to say that when we were kids.
Nice memories. And you always had to call their bluff...if you didn't you were a ween.

Skirtchaser

12-06-2008, 09:56 AM

LOL:D Yep, I here ya! I love that song.

Now don't double dog dare me now. We use to say that when we were kids.
Nice memories. And you always had to call their bluff...if you didn't you were a ween.

A "Ween"? LOL I have heard it all now.:)

demoralized

12-08-2008, 08:10 AM

We had a busy weekend, and spent time together, working on things. She told me sometimes, when she looks at our son, she feels sick to her stomach, because she betrayed him too.

Is this a sign of real remorse?

tijaco

12-08-2008, 07:21 PM

It may be a possibility. That is the first thing I think of when I hear about cheaters with children.

I just think how could they put their children's little lives out there to be disrupted and quite possibly irreparably damaged?

Answer, IMO it is that they didn't really care about the children at the time. All they cared about was self. Oh they may have felt a little bit of a conscience tug but lied to themselves regarding the ultimate harm it would do. Because they wanted what they wanted at the time.

Now there lies your dilemma my friend...when children are involved it puts a whole different twist on the betrayal because most loving parents want their little ones to have stable happy lives. Also in a divorce situation you become a part time parent and the children have to spend part of their lives with people that live like this.
You will always live with the fact that she went through with the affair. Yes it is possible that she may be repentant. But there is always the possibility that she would do it again. It is just a fact that you know it is in her nature now.

I believe there may be exceptions (but few I think) where it is a one time occurrence and it never happens again. That is the best you can hope for. And if you do decide to stay married to her, she should have not a word to say for the rest of her life when you check up on her constantly. Even when you're rolling around together in wheelchairs at the age of 90.

I know that sounds extreme but you know I'm just trying to make a point.

Personally, I have always believed that there is such an instinctual, fierce protective bond that a mother has for her children. So it is really sad when the children are disregarded. I really feel it is a form of child abuse. You won't see bruises on their bodies but they will be there in their minds.

Believe me, I know your struggle. I practically killed myself trying to keep my children in the dark about their dad's escapades.

I really do wish you well.

demoralized

12-10-2008, 08:55 AM

I appreciate it tijaco.

I am just blown apart by this, ya know? In high school I had a relationship with a girl, that was too long and too serious to be healthy for either of us. She ended up cheating on me too. I thought that was just because we were so young. It did hurt though, we thought we were in love with each other, I am certain I was deeply in love with her now, and had just buried it because I had fallen so hard and quickly for my wife.

I found out about the high school GF's doings and just let her go, broke up with her, and moved on. I figured it was best for both of us. She's now on her 3rd marriage with 4th kid, from 3rd father.

I went out, played the field for months, I was 20 and still at home with the folks. I'd come home at 5 or 6 on a Saturday morning(my parents were pretty relaxed) and my Mom would have 7 or 8 messages from different girls from the night before. She'd say, hey, you can't do THIS forever. I was like ya I know, but I was trying to get over being hurt, and didn't want to get involved with anyone seriously. The girls I was seeing at the time, didn't want that from me either. One night I was out with A, ran into B, and went home with B, and left B's apartment the next morning, and took A to breakfast, before going home and getting ready for a date with C. The thing was, they all told me up front, no strings, no exclusivity, so WTF? Right?

I turned 21 (the X-HS-GF came to the party, found out later her beau had been accusing her of running around with me behind his back, and ditched her, 6 weeks pregnant) and continued down the same path. 2 months later I meet the wife. It was like getting hit in the head with I don't what. Immediate eye contact, 10 minutes later dancing together until the wee hours and stayed up ALL night just talking. The next morning I go to work, go home, and get a call from a friend whose having a birthday party that night, saying he has a surprise for me. I get to his house and the wife is there. She said she couldn't stop thinking about me, and wanted to see me again as soon as possible. Our love affair begins. A couple of months of the newness stuff, then she leaves for the summer for a job in another state. She came back, I went there a few times. She comes back at the end of summer and we move in together. My first place, and hers too. Things move forward, she steals my heart, we get married, have our son, struggle financially at times but always get by. We by our house, things get better, and then really get good. Over the last few years, I have many times thought, wow, I made it, WE made it. Sharing great times together, by ourselves, with family, friends. I guess I got complacent. I still feel like after 15 years together, a little complacency was deserved, a feeling of comfort. Now here I am again, betrayed, wounded, and without the life I worked for.

Am I a magnet for emotionally destructive women?

KATURN

12-10-2008, 01:37 PM

You are asking some good questions to yourself...I can only speak from personal observations but it does seem that good people can be drawn to destructive ones for whatever reasons. My counselor told me that people often go after people with character flaws because on some deep level they feel that they deserve punishment...like they must redeem themselves by saving someone. In my case I have a history of trying to help wounded men...After lots of counseling I have discovered my own reasons for going after these types. I felt inadequate for somoene who was a good person so I would subconsciously "choose" someone who in comparison made me feel very put together because they were a wreck. I am working very hard on myself now to stop these self defeating patterns in my life.

demoralized

12-10-2008, 03:15 PM

Yea, I guess I don't really know what kind of person is right for me now. I would love to think we can work this out but, I think she's out and, much like her affair, just hasn't told me yet. It went on for a year, how will it take me any less time to get over it? When I know that Christmas, birthdays, 4th of July, our Anniversary, all of it was spent with her in love with him, missing him, and wishing she was with him instead of me. She doesn't have any idea the pain I am in or what she has done to us. I pretty much just want to puke every 5 minutes. Life as I knew it and thought I had been a good enough man to deserve is over. Why on earth does anyone ever let someone this close to them? Why did I?

I know I'll spend the rest of my life never forgiving myself for exposing my life and happiness to another person.

JunJunJun.........sad but true!

demoralized

12-10-2008, 04:04 PM

Another thought I had was, just disappear forever. Leave it all to her to sort out. Get on a bus, leave every thing behind and never make contact with anyone I've ever known ever again.

Irrational I suppose, but totally wiping the slate clean.

Ravage

12-10-2008, 08:07 PM

Give it time D. all the time for the affair and now you both know what happened. She needs to be truthful and you need to keep pushing for the truth because you will never solve the problems about it if you dont address it.

But she does sound remorseful from your new posts. Keep your eyes open!

Trust but verify.

StillinShock

12-11-2008, 05:29 AM

demoralized...I know I have had thoughts of "running away" too. Very tempting. But really, don't leave it all.
I've decided that my H may have destroyed what I "thought" was my life but that there are some very real parts of my life that I should not let him destroy. Mainly, my home, surroundings, the things I have put together. They are not all just reminders of him but reminders of a life I have. Even though he was a big part of it--he was not all of it.
So...I've decided to stay put--I can let him go. Total change is really really hard on a person--everything at once and I just don't think that is the way to go but that's my thought. For others it has worked.
But I'm going to enjoy my house, change things about it, keep my routine and get through this stress and shock of finding out my H is not who I thought he was all these years. In the meantime, I'll change what I want to make it easier to be here with his ghost. Painting like responce did...I bought to furniture...throwing things out (highly recommend this step)...
Anyway, just really think about it before you leave .You are tired right now and overwhelmed...might be better to just take a vacation first--that's what I did in May.

demoralized

12-11-2008, 06:53 AM

Thanks Rav, and SiS. The support here really does help me. Thing is, I don't know where she is getting any support from. I am not sure if she feels remorse or regret, they're different. When I have a bad day or start feeling upset, she gets distraught. She takes it like I am throwing it in her face. That's not what I am doing at all, it's hard to manage these emotions, and what I really need is for her to be comforting to me, not get mad and withdrawn. I just don't know. I think she is anticipating some sort of eureka on my part, that will pop the metaphorical balloon, and it will just be gone. I know that's not going to happen. I put the ball in her court, if it is too hard, if I am not worth the stress, if we are not worth the painful effort it will take for us to truly survive, then she should go.

She cried, and said no, I don't want to go.

We'll see.

tijaco

12-11-2008, 08:23 AM

You are absolutely right D, you deserved some complacency. Geez if we can never get to that point in a relationship then I think it is like being mated with an eternal 3 year old that needs that constant pat on the back and validation for every little thing.
No thanks!

As far as attracting destructive people...well, I have come to be a little jaded where that is concerned. It seems like there are a whole lot more of them out there than us. So the chances of running up on another is good IMO. Not because there is something in your personality but because there are so dang many of them!
In my case we were high school sweethearts. My first boyfriend. I was the honor student. He was the jock. (he's no dummy though. They say most sociopaths are very intelligent)I was innocent and he,.. I found out later had probably been having sex since he was 3.:eek: Just kidding. But he was extremely promiscuous I have found out.
I was raised to be an honest, caring person. I watched those qualities in my parents. They have a very loving, happy relationship.
My grandparents had the same thing. I never knew anything else so I guess some people would say I and my brothers and sisters grew up in la la land.

I really didn't know signs to look for and I just trusted completely. I just think that people like us are targets for people like them. What makes them what they are? Who knows and I don't really care either anymore. We can never understand it because it isn't part of our wiring. Decent people can't understand that crap!
When my husband would try to explain things to me he would talk and talk and then look in my eyes and say, you look like I'm speaking Chinese. I thought at the time it is more like you have stinky green vomit leaking out of your mouth. That is probably the look I had on my face.
I have a cousin. A girl. Grew up in the same type of environment with great parents and brothers and sisters. She is the only one of us that I know that is a $lut. Cheated on all of her husbands. She's about to replace the third with her boss. This 3rd husband is successful and a great dad. Handsome and 7 years younger than she is. So go figure...She practically killed her dad with worry over her life. Her parents always pondered on what they did wrong in her upbringing even though the other kids are great people.

My dad said hell, nothing was done wrong. Some people just love "bad".

Sometimes it's just that simple D.

Skirtchaser

12-11-2008, 08:29 AM

demoralized

12-11-2008, 01:16 PM

Thanks again Ti, Man I don't know how I would vent this stuff if it wasn't for you guys. SI, uh yeah you guys were dead on, total apologists for cheaters. I been there and some of them feel real remorse but for the most part it's all of the rediculous "something was missing from our marriage" Yeah Honesty on your F'n part! That's what was missing.

My wife had a bad go of things at work, terrible boss. She would come home an vent the same stuff night after night. It was eating her up. I begged her for five years to quit that job, and she finally did, summer of 07. Then she panicked, and thought she ruined us. A little adjustment and we were fine for 5-1/2 months without her paycheck. In fact if it weren't for insurance, (please just let that be if ya would) she wouldn't have to work at all.

She is unhappy with herself. That's why this happened. I hope she can figure that out one way or the other. If she doesn't do it for us, and we split up, I hope something wakes her up, otherwise, she'll be right back here with someone else down the road.

demoralized

12-12-2008, 02:03 PM

Have any of you truly reconciled your relationships, or known anyone that has after an affair?

It just hit me today, pretty much everyone I know has either cheated or been cheated on at some point.

I have a buddy that cheated on his fiance with a couple of bar skanks here and there in the few months (7 or 8) leading up to his wedding.

8 years later they are to some extent happily married. Got a little boy, and a nice house, and are very affectionate with each other in almost all settings.

Did they make or did she just bury it?

I really do not believe he has cheated since.

I don't know, it just seems like Loyalty, Fidelity, Faithfulness, and Honesty are all virtues seemingly non existent in modern day society.

Cheat, or be cheated on appears to be the lesson.

KATURN

12-12-2008, 04:30 PM

Just like a coin there is always more than one side. Please do not let your friends define what you see the world as. There are many good people out there who are happy and in healthy relationships. Their bad choices should not make you doubt that integrity is dead.

Skirtchaser

12-12-2008, 05:51 PM

If they had integrity they would'nt have cheated in the first place.

The sharpest weapon one human can use on another human. It is a long straight arrow called breach of trust. I have no faith, respect, nor belief that they will change.

Does the friend's wife even know he cheated? How do you know he hasn't done it again? How do you know he will not do it again?

KATURN

12-12-2008, 07:30 PM

I don't know, it just seems like Loyalty, Fidelity, Faithfulness, and Honesty are all virtues seemingly non existent in modern day society.

Cheat, or be cheated on appears to be the lesson.

Your friend has not honored his commitment...the lesson is you are not him. You did the right thing by honoring your wife. I believe in the old adage of you reap what you sow. When you are sowing good seeds it comes back as good to you...when you sow bad seeds it will eventually catch up. All cheaters will eventually recieve what they have given others.

I agree with skirt integrity is not found in a cheater...but just because others lack integrity does not mean the virtue of integrity is dead in the world. There are people in the world who do not cheat there is evidence of that right here on this site.

demoralized

12-14-2008, 09:19 AM

I hear what you are saying Kat, and I feel now like I have been living in some kind of bubble of naivety. My wife and I enjoyed each others company so much for so long, our sex life was great for many years. I never saw this coming. Feeling like you are overly trusting is a tough pill to swallow. Nice guys do finish last, and that just sucks.

StillinShock

12-14-2008, 08:51 PM

I feel now like I have been living in some kind of bubble of naivety. My wife and I enjoyed each others company so much for so long, our sex life was great for many years. I never saw this coming. Feeling like you are overly trusting is a tough pill to swallow. .

Demoralized..this is just how I felt about my marriage. I was so naive. We just had a good marriage and when he was irritable or distant he said it was because of his job or he was tired--never complained to me. And our kids thought we had this great loving relationship and they lived here! No, I never saw it coming either. It has been so very hard to accept. I am still in shock...and it has been 18 months since discovery day. I was so very happily married. And I was willing to forgive him---he just is not willing to stop lying to me. And, of course, now I realize he would have to "become" someone else. Because I now know who the "real" person actually is and not just who he pretends to be. Sigh...

demoralized

12-15-2008, 06:40 AM

Naive is now gone, long gone. I am having a bad day.

demoralized

12-15-2008, 04:43 PM

I took the afternoon off and went shopping with a friend today. I got my son's gifts and a few things for others. We stopped at a jewelry store and I spent a rediculous amount of money on her. Was that wrong? I had some cash set aside for a vacation we were planning, and just blew it all on her. What am I thinking?

I have this ring, and we are going to see her family next week. I was thinking of giving it to her in front of them, is that manipulative on my part?

Should I just return it and get the money back?

I am afraid that things will come to light next week, with her family.

What should I do?

Skirtchaser

12-15-2008, 06:25 PM

You can't buy love, anything that's worth keeping anyways.

Why not save them for a woman who deserves them?

demoralized

12-15-2008, 08:11 PM

Clearly this is true, and what pisses me off most is that I am a huge Beatles fan!!!

I was looking at things from a distant vantage point, in the last ten years, I have earned 700,000+ and spent less than 7k on myself. EVERYTHING else has been totally in her hands.

Stupid, I know, but I put my earnings, 100% in her trust. Sure, the majority of it benefited us both and our son, but, here is what gets me. How much of what SHE earned went towards her, vs. US/our family.

Well I'll tell you, 95% her....5% us.

I am setting up separate checking accounts tomorrow, I told her this earlier. I said, no more joint account, you gave that up when you decided that someone else deserved you more than I did, so ask him to give you his pay check.

As you can imagine, that didn't go over too well, but F it I say.

I was fine with the way we were, she changed it, not me, so she has to deal with asking me for money, SO BE IT!!!

Ravage

12-15-2008, 08:15 PM

If your setting up seperate accounts then why are you buying gifts for her in excess of 7'g's? WTF? either your in or you are out. You cant be wishy washy about it! Is she leaving, cause if she 's still doing the OM< then dont buy her grit!!!! If she's commited to your marrage and whatnot then take it slow, get that money back and be yourself.

tijaco

12-16-2008, 12:24 PM

Take it back. I wouldn't give any gifts right now. Christmas or not. If you want to not look like scrooge in front of the family, give her a small gift certificate to someplace neutral. NOT a jewelry store!

Maybe a book store. That's a good one. Unless she is a voracious reader of everything and loves all books.... then just make it from Home Depot.

KATURN

12-16-2008, 01:13 PM

This woman is feeding off of your good nature. I remember in some child phsycology classes I took we were examining the nature of consequences. If a child acts out in a negative way and soon after receives a reward or treat that they enjoy this is reinforcing the negative behaviour. The same with your wife if you are giving her an expensive gift or treat you are sending a subconcious reinforcement of her negative behaviour and giving her a feeling of power. Buy a smaller gift for her something not nearly as grand as what you just bought. Spend the money on your child and yourself...

I watched the movie "The Painted Veil" in it a wife is unfaithful...this is discovered by her husband. He stays with her BUT he treats her according to her actions. There are immediate consequences he sends...she lives by his rules and he is very forthright in his expectations for her. She must prove herself through a series of things he sets forth. SHe does not call any shots he puts emotional and physical walls between them until she showed him the respect he deserves. I

Make her work to get back into your good graces.

demoralized

12-16-2008, 01:33 PM

Wow, good points all. I am admittedly rethinking my decision. I hate not being able to see these things for myself. She was in "the fog" doing this, now because of her, I am in it too.

StillinShock

12-16-2008, 06:57 PM

Painted veil was a great movie....I watched it with my H....he wondered if I had the same plans for him...:D

demoralized

12-17-2008, 06:15 PM

To her:

Why? What is wrong with you? The one thing I asked of you, the only thing, don't ever cheat on me, lie to me, betray my trust. I asked this of you so long ago, you promised you wouldn't, you told me that nothing could ever be so bad.

You did it.

I have nothing left for you. You don't deserve a man like me.

A better life does not await you now. Sorrow, misery and agony, are your friends now. You invited them, they do not leave, they stay forever, caring not for your exhaustion, or your unrest. They seek only your demise, it is the fuel on which they thrive. You will try to lock them out, but they have all the keys to you. There is no door you can close tight enough, or place to hide from them, they follow you at every turn. It is your epic. It is your saga.

You had the life you wanted, you couldn't see it, or believe it was real. No one could really love you. You don't love yourself. Love is a word, nothing more. You are dead inside, without a soul. No true soul denies the recognition of a soul within another. You stole my soul, now you know you are nothing but a thief. You have acquired a soul, but it will never be yours, or belong to you, because you'll always know how you got it, by stealing it from someone else. Someone that gave you themselves completely, mind, body, heart and soul.

Keep it, I don't need it anymore.

Adam Bomb 1701

12-18-2008, 11:54 AM

I took the afternoon off and went shopping with a friend today.... We stopped at a jewelry store and I spent a ridiculous amount of money on her. Was that wrong? I had some cash set aside for a vacation we were planning, and just blew it all on her. What am I thinking?
You're not thinking at all, just acting out. Possibly out of depression.

I have this ring, and we are going to see her family next week. I was thinking of giving it to her in front of them, is that manipulative on my part?
Should I just return it and get the money back?
Yes, take it back. Now! But - why are you going to see her family? Once I found out my ex was cheating, the last thing I wanted to do was see her family. I stopped going over my in-laws entirely. Especially for Christmas, which tore my heart out, as my ex'es mom is a wonderful cook, and cooked up a Christmas feast that would knock your socks off. I still don't know if my ex ever told her family that she cheated on me recklessly during our marriage, and I probably never will.

demoralized

12-18-2008, 01:27 PM

Her family lives far away and we only get to see them a couple times a year. I know it may be hard to believe but I love them all. They have been kind and supportive of me from day 1 in our relationship. They are good people, and I enjoy their company a great deal. It wouldn't be fair to them or my son to deny everyone of the holidays together for this, it's not their fault.

No she has not told them, and I am NOT going to force that issue. That's her family, and the decision is in her hands.

I have come to the realization that I am suffering from depression, I'll get through it, I have before.

KATURN

12-18-2008, 03:15 PM

It's a good thing to journal your feelings like you did above. It helps to purge the feelings out as words. It may not feel like it but you will recover faster this way. I poured out my feelings into artwork...after my drawing was done it was almost like I felt a certain sense of peace...you will get through this.

demoralized

12-22-2008, 11:55 AM

Well, wish me luck all, we're heading out tomorrow for the Holidays.

Hope things continue to go well, the last week has gone by pretty well with only 1 disagreement.

Happy Holidays everyone!

Demo.

demoralized

12-29-2008, 11:18 AM

Hope the holidays found you all as well as they could, everything considered.

The trip was rough, weather was terrible.

Her family was celebrating, new babies, and pregnancies. It was hard to be around all of the happiness, when I am feeling sow low. She did stay by my side a lot and be kind and complimentary and comforting.

We had no time to ourselves, and couldn't talk. 16 hours in the car, gave me a lot of time to think, and I told her last night I was going to leave. She had mentioned separation before. When I said I would leave, she started crying and begging me not to go. I asked why she had brought it up then a couple of weeks ago. She said she thought at the time that it would be something I needed. She was extremely emotional saying that she didn't realize what she had suggested, and when she heard the words come from my mouth, it hit her hard, and she realized how awful this has made me feel. She cried for almost 3 hours. She says she loves me and can't believe she did this and doesn't know the person inside of her that did this to us. I asked her to seek counseling for herself, so that she could figure out what caused her to think this was acceptable, and she agreed and told me that she has been thinking about doing that for a few weeks. She told me that there is NOTHING wrong with me, that I have been a wonderful husband, father, companion, and lover to her for years, and that she has something wrong with her mind, and has to find out what it is, and fix it. She begged me not to go all night. We went to bed, and she held me and sobbed through the night, saying, I love you, I belong to you, I'll always be yours.

She says that even though she realizes I can't believe her or trust what she says, that her heart is broken too, she broke her own heart by doing this as much as she broke mine. When she thinks about the pain she has caused me, she feels sick, and wants to throw up, and just crawl in a hole.

I was ready to pack my stuff, and go stay with friends for a few weeks to see if she would miss me, or come around, or open up to me. Now I am uncertain. The talk we had last night was the best one yet, calm, caring, open, loving, and honest.

I hope that was real, cause it felt good, like we were teenagers again.

Mutt

12-29-2008, 02:47 PM

Demo,

I'm in a similar place but fast forward about 6 weeks.

I had a flaming confrontation with my wife in Mid Nov. and during which I said some things I never imagined I would say. It started out with me confronting her about everything and admitting that I had been monitoring her e-mail/IM activity for the past 18 months. Initially she was angry and then I blew up. I never imagined myself acting that way or saying the things I did. I felt like I had to protect myself from her and told her wanted a divorce. She said go ahead and leave. I left the room, when into our storage room and took out our suitcases. That’s when everything changed. She instantly went from anger to panic. She grabbed the suitcases out of my hand and refused to let me leave.

I continued to shout myself into a sour throat and she took every word, crying, apologizing and begging forgiveness the whole time. She's agreed to go into counselling. I want to believe she finally realized what she has been doing and the damage she was causing. Its been over a month and she's still acting like she's sorry. But I can't help hearing in the back of my mind how she told the guy the was IMing how she "told me what I wanted to hear".

StillinShock

12-29-2008, 05:17 PM

I could have written your post back in December of last year. It is real and it feels real. I know my H loves me and I know he really believed the words he was saying. And he repeated them all year--telling me how he would never go back to p@rn or Pro$titutes because he "knows now what he risked and how important I am to him".

And then 7 months later I found out that by February he had started back looking at the online personal ads and nude pictures 3 nights a week at least.
Sigh....of course, first he lied about it a half dozen times before admitting it.

And then he cried again and said he "didn't know what was wrong" with him and he loves me so much and I just have to know that he means it and he knows that I can't trust him but won't I just try one more time?" And he held me close.

I hope you have better luck than I did----I really do....The second time is a real crusher. At least I didn't get herpes like my friend who gave her H another year of turst.....I'll be crossing my fingers for you---but use c0nd0ms.

demoralized

12-30-2008, 11:15 AM

Thanks Sis, I don't really know what to believe as you can understand. I do know for a fact that the OM, is a serial cheater, a predator, and a manipulator. His marriage is a joke and always has been. He masks himself as a "friend" to vulnerable women, and then swoops in for the kill. He's done it many times before, and his wife turns her head, because she doesn't love him, and never has.

This isn't an excuse I make for my wife, she should have known better, and been able to talk to me, and tell me what she wanted out of her life and our marriage. But he challenged her, and advanced on her for months before anything happened. He convinced her that she deserved someone better than me, and that I was not in love with her. He went out of his way to get what he wanted, and thought of no one but himself, including my wife.

These are not opinions, other women that he has done this to, have contacted me, women from his past whose lives he destroyed. There is a long swath of devastated marriages and relationships in his wake. One woman from his distant past attempted suicide, and was institutionalized. Another still follows him and followed my wife during their affair, and even went so far as to approach my wife, and tell her to watch out for herself, then called a friend of my wife and told the friend that my wife was "gonna get it."

This is a SICKO, an uncontrollable predator.

When I found out, I confronted him and the f**ker actually just smiled at me and said, hey sorry. Smug-ass b*st*rd.

An un-winnable battle? may be, but I embark anyway, and will fight it, to the death.

StillinShock

12-30-2008, 09:22 PM

Oh my gosh, that must have been terrible to have the OM smug like that! ughhhh. I can't imagine having to see the other person. I'm amazed that you held it together.
Yeah, it does sound like your W was seduced by a horrible person....

Ravage

12-30-2008, 09:58 PM

Wow i wouldnt have blamed you for putting the dog outta his misery i know a few guys in my hood that would have popped a cap in his ass, he must got a death wish. LOL. I know I would have smacked the taste outta his mouth, smirking like it's no big deal.

demoralized

12-31-2008, 07:17 AM

Yeah it was all I could do not to beat him to death, and he knows it. My christian upbringing wouldn't allow it. I am not a church goer but I have strong christian values, and believe in God.

So that's the deal, am I putting to much stock in her that he seduced her?

He bought her expensive gifts, and worked her for months, then followed her 100 miles to a hotel where she was staying for a business trip.

He just made it so easy, the separate cell phone, so calls wouldn't show up on the bills, emails at work, never from home, always getting together when I was busy, or out of town. He took advantage of her, and even worse my trust in her.

He made a pass at her long ago, and she told him she was a very happily married woman, so he backed off, and apologized and said he wanted to be her friend. It was a plot, planned and executed.

She is remorseful, and now understands that he wasn't her friend, she was just a notch in his belt, and she says the thought of it all makes her want to throw up.

StillinShock

01-02-2009, 09:32 PM

yes, I am afraid that you are putting too much stock in the fact that "he seduced her".

All the cheaters cheat with seductive people. Seductive people are everywhere. At any time she could have walked away. The fact that she did not is what hurts.

You are looking for excuses because you want to forgive her. I know. I find myself doing this all the time because I still love my H. Unfortunately.

demoralized

01-06-2009, 10:27 AM

I know the feeling that having the love for your cheating spouse seems unfortunate. Sometimes I wish I didn't love her, I even tried to convince myself that I didn't.

I am very sick today with stomach flu. She stayed up with me all night, and waited on me.

Today is a bad day, I am feeling very down, worthless, and ugly.

MC tomorrow, first time since Nov. Weather caused cancellations.

What things would you expect from a cheater who is really and honestly "owning" what they did.

Many here have said that I should leave her because so few cheaters accept and deal with their actions the right way, but that a few have.

So that's my question.

What should I be seeing from her that tells me she is truly sorry for this and committed to me and our marriage, and will never do this again?

MrNguyen

01-06-2009, 11:11 AM

breemood

01-06-2009, 12:56 PM

That's called revising the marriage to justify the selfish actions they have taken.

StillinShock

01-06-2009, 08:27 PM

What should I be seeing from her that tells me she is truly sorry for this and committed to me and our marriage, and will never do this again

I don't know. My H keeps asking this too. "what can I do?". And I have not figured it out.

But I do know what the cheater should not be doing after cheating--
*making excuses or trying to blame the other person for their weakness
*continue to lie, even about little things
*borrow money when they say they will no longer do that
*buy themself something to make themself feel bettter
*ask you when you will get over it
*suggest that you are overreacting about the p**** and internet even though they admitted that this led to all the cheating
*look at p**** again after promising not to and being warned that it would mean the end of the marriage. And then looking at it again a few months later but first lying and saying that you are not looking at it.
*Going out of town on meetings alone after saying you wouldn't do that anymore because you would not want to take the risk of temptation
*looking at match.com and other personal ads again three times a week for the past nine months after getting caught cheating--and saying it was "just in case we didn't make it and because I was so vulnerable but it didn't mean a thing".

Gee...thanks for this thread...the reminders were good for me. I think I'll post this on my mirror lest I forget. But sorry I didn't have an answer to your question. I cannot imagine what my H could do to regain trust after everything.

What do you all think about the above? I need some honest input...

demoralized

01-07-2009, 08:35 AM

I think that cheaters CANNOT understand that lies hurt so much worse than the truth. They seem to think that covering up their true feelings, protects their hurt spouse from further pain. They can't deal with guilt. They look for answers outside of themselves instead of inside themselves, and therefore are unable to find the REAL reason that they have dishonored their faithful spouse, their marriage vows, the sacred bond of their relationship, and the sanctity of the institution of marriage itself.

I think that cheaters never wanted to be married in the first place, they only did so because it was what was expected of them by their families, and society.

Cheaters call it "FOG", it is personal unhappiness, something missing from themselves, that can't be provided by another person, a spouse, an affair partner, no one. No one can instill a sense of joy into a person like this.

Cheaters, look at their life and where they are NOT, what they have NOT accomplished, and what they DON'T have. They feel as though their life is a failure because as younger people they had set goals for themselves, that they have not yet achieved, and figure since it hasn't happened for them yet, it NEVER will. In their minds, they have failed in their life and failing to be faithful in their marriage is nothing more than part of their overall inadequacies.

You CANNOT be a soul-mate to someone who has no soul.

Slim

01-07-2009, 10:00 AM

Demoralized
I dont know but my wife put the pressure on a lot. Marriage and then a child. She lost a bunch of weight from her pregnancy and got full of herself, then this jerk showered her with compliments and hit on her constantly. I was told about a couple of his compliments and let her know I hated that. Somehow he conned her into "their little secret" She felt guilty and he wouldt let her go, so she had to tell me so maybe we could restore our life. Besides the fact things got routine and dull, she plain got selfish. not every one is the same but one fact is we all hurt very badly

demoralized

01-07-2009, 10:53 AM

I feel for you Slim, we are unfortunately part of a very undesirable club.

Things got routine and dull because she had feelings for someone else.

Don't take any percentage of the blame for her poor choices.

I spent the last year trying desperately to engage my wife, to talk with her about our relationship. She clammed up and wouldn't tell me anything, that's her fault, not mine.

She says she loves me, and wants to save our marriage, she says she knows it will be very hard. I don't think she has a clue how difficult of a battle this will be.

Best of luck to you, your gonna need it.

Adam Bomb 1701

01-07-2009, 11:42 AM

She is remorseful, and now understands that he wasn't her friend, she was just a notch in his belt, and she says the thought of it all makes her want to throw up.
And if he came back to her, she'd run back to him in a New York minute. Don't buy the remorse.

I am very sick today with stomach flu. She stayed up with me all night, and waited on me.
I don't know why she would do that. Out of guilt, maybe. But, cheaters have no guilt or remorse. I was sick as a dog on Christmas Day of 2000, but I still had to put the trash out at the curb; my then wife wouldn't do it. This was a few months before the cheating began, BTW. If I were sick, I wouldn't want my cheating wife anywhere near me; it might make me sicker.

What should I be seeing from her that tells me she is truly sorry for this and committed to me and our marriage, and will never do this again?
Words mean nothing. Actions speak louder than words. But, I can't think of a single action on her part that would express her sincerity. She lied once, she'll lie again. Maybe she's lying now.

demoralized

01-07-2009, 02:10 PM

"And if he came back to her, she'd run back to him in a New York minute. Don't buy the remorse."

I can see where your coming with that, she ended it, not him. I demanded that she forward any emails from him including her reply, as a condition of my staying with her.

Two weeks after D-day, he contacted her via email, as they had done throughout, and he asked her how she was doing. She told him she was awful, and felt like a terrible wife, mother and person altogether.

He then emailed he back and asked if they could meet and "just talk". He did not feel like he had "closure".

She replied that he should never contact her again, and to leave her alone to repair her damaged marriage, and that neither one of them deserved closure.

From there, She found out that his wife left him, and filed for divorce. Her friend works with him. Then his wife contacted mine, to tell here that she was sorry that she had not been a better wife to him, and that their problems had affected her life.

If she wanted to be with him, she could do so right now very easily. I told her to go be with him if that is what she really wanted. I don't want to be with someone that wants to be with someone else. I also told her, that I will NEVER forget this, and that she has a lot of work to do, if she wants to make things up to me.

This is the truth.

This guy has a lot more money than I do, and could provide her with a lifestyle that most people can't even dream about.

If she wanted to be with him instead of me, she wouldn't have to have a job, he could easily pay all of her side of the divorce proceedings, and any child support she would owe me.

So, why is she still here?

Ravage

01-07-2009, 04:18 PM

Trust but verify demoralized.

It sounds like she may do love you, she knows the relationship with the OM wont work because if he cheats on his wife with her what makes her think he's gonna remain faithful ESPECIALLY IF HE'S RICH!!!!

Come on. you think he wont have women throwing themselves at him, if your wife would have left then what she would have been stuck with a cheater who probably who would have grown tired of her. Also if he has money I wonder if Alienation of Affection are on the books, hit him where if F-ing hurts!!! I bet that would have made his head spin.

Give it time D, trust but verify. If she starts starting **** up again, can that as.s!!!

demoralized

01-07-2009, 08:25 PM

Thanks Rav, yea aoa has been discussed with my attorney, I am prepared for anything at this point.

It has been tough but I have decided to align myself, physically, mentally, spiritually, and financially with divorce.

Uh, this sucks, but I have to protect myself and my son now. She is getting a second chance for now, but if I suspect she's not in it ALL THE WAY, I'm goin out guns blazin.

Ravage

01-08-2009, 08:06 AM

That's a good thing, keep your guards up because she cant be trusted and if she'll do it once she'll do it again.

demoralized

01-09-2009, 07:30 AM

MC was interesting, I think we have a good one. I was a little bit nervous to have a female C at first, ya know thinking, well here we go, it's my fault for not loading the dishwasher the right way, LOL! ;) But, she laid into the W good, asking about specific disagreements between us prior to all of this. W says, we don't argue, C wrinkles eyebrow and looks at me. I say, she's right we don't. C rolls eyes and asks for a detailed moment from me. So I commence with an anecdote, and W lets out big sigh. C says to W, so.... damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Lose, lose, for him, lose, lose for you. You're pissed and intend to stay that way until you don't want to be anymore, regardless of what he does, or doesn't do. And this is the best part...then she says, did it ever occur to you that the person you are pissed off at is YOU!? C then asks W to ponder, with the family history of D, do you think it's possible you had already accepted the fact that you were destined for a failed marriage, and since it hadn't happened, since things were so great for so long, and H was such a great man to you, that you decided it wasn't right, it wasn't where you were supposed to be in life at this point, and you did this to get yourself back on the path that, in your mind, fate had assigned you? Divorced, alone, unhappy, struggling, like the rest of your family? Have you given any amount of thought to the idea that, this isn't so much about career dissatisfaction as it is personal undervalue? That you think so little of yourself, that you can't believe that your H does think highly of you, and for years have been waiting for the shoe to drop, and it didn't and you couldn't take it any more, so you dropped yours instead, to confirm to yourself that you are the bad person that you think you are? Because otherwise, you don't know yourself, and don't know who you are?

BAM!!!!!

1-1/2 hour round trip to therapy $20.

Therapist, $165 per hour.

Hearing the thoughts in your head, repeated verbatim, by a professional PRICELESS!!!

sadpatricia

01-09-2009, 11:56 AM

demoralized:
Happy for you. You deserve it.
sadpatricia

Mutt

01-09-2009, 01:04 PM

Who's your therapist?? I think I need to set up an appointment.:D

demoralized

01-12-2009, 06:28 AM

Thanks Patricia, and Mutt!

Yea, it seems like MC is getting things going for us. I hope that at some point I can find someway to deal with the sense of loss that I have from all of this. I am scared that we may move forward and get better together, improve communication and everything, but that I might always harbor resentment.

Hopefully MC, and or some of the books will help me with that.

demoralized

01-13-2009, 07:22 AM

I need some advice from you guys.

I am having a hard time with triggers. I don't understand their source, they hit out of the blue, I don't need anything specific to happen to have one. She's here, she's not, whatever.

Yesterday, I was in a meeting with clients, and my mind just drifted for a second, there it was. I was able to quickly put it away, by focusing on the discussion at hand, but why did it pop in there?

Also, she notices when I am not doing so great and asks me what she did to make me feel down. What she is eluding to is something she may have done in the last few minutes or hours. Did she say something wrong, or do something that hurt me? How do I explain that it's not something she did in today, or yesterday, it's what she did over the last year, without essentially throwing it in her face and making her feel like this is what the rest of our lives are going to be? Me feeling bad and never forgiving her, and never being able to move past this and have a relationship again.

I guess I need to bring this up in MC, I was just wondering if anyone else attempting recon. is or has experienced the same frustration.

Ravage

01-14-2009, 02:12 AM

Triggers go away in time. I remember when my ex broke my heart i had high expectations for us. and that day felt like someone was putting a hot knife in my freaking heart. I just barked on her because she filled up my head with lies and lied to me in the end.

I still have triggers from time to time and I just smirk and say damn that was crazy. but then again I'm not around her in any form or fashion so that helps.

Your wife is doing the right thing. I see it. take your time. Recommitting takes time and it shows she has more heart because cheating women are not likely to come back than cheating dudes.

...give it time.

StillinShock

01-14-2009, 05:06 AM

Yes, I agree...the sad, sick feelings do diminish with time. And when I do get them, I do not think that it affects me as much or shows as much on my face.

Demoralized--I could have written your post---my H would see the look of hurt come over my face at times and ask the same thing.

Unfortunately, when I found out that all those months of that while he was professing he would "do anything to make it up to me" he was looking on personal ads again. His answer: "but you would get this sick hurt look on your face and I just knew there was no hope for us so I just had to go back and look at personal ads in case our marriage didn't make it".

Yeah, right. I hope you have better luck.

demoralized

01-14-2009, 02:17 PM

Yuk!

Sorry SiS, I am hopeful she isn't gaslighting me at this point and continuing her lies and deceit. We never really can be sure though can we?

BTW, your inbox is full and I can't PM you.

take care gang.

Demo

Slim

01-14-2009, 03:33 PM

I guess you never know what others are thinking, especially after you cant trust them. You would like to trust they learn from the past, however most learn how to not get caught again. Tough spot were in.... But you have to try if your heart desires it. I also share your frustration. It is no fun, but I can say time helps, The first day I found out that was all I can think about. I have finally had a good day where it only popped in once or twice, so goes to prove time heals all.....if not some...

demoralized

01-16-2009, 10:32 AM

Slim, are you recovered with your spouse, or separated, or divorced?

I only ask because I am trying to get a handle on things. I am trying very hard to R with my wife, but sometimes it does feel hopeless.

I am going through the changing of the mind every five minutes right now.

Stay, work it out.........leave and start life over again.

If I didn't truly love her with all of my heart and being, this would be a very easy decision.

Slim

01-16-2009, 12:24 PM

Partially recovered--- i will never forget this. I still go back and forth, but mostly forth. My wife is trying pretty hard so what do I do? Especially when kids are involved its pretty rough. If I gather your post right, this happened twice? All I know is If it were to happen to me again I would take everything from her and crush her, Infedility is a breach of contract and it becomes null if thats what you want. Like you, I loved with all my heart, and you are in a tough spot. This is her second and last chance-- and I let her know she didnt get away with anything. She is also prepared to go a lifetime to repair me. Is yours? I too am going to renew our vows, it would turn the page on the last ugly chapter of the greatest love story I have ever known. I will say that I will never marry again, no matter what happens....
I have two sides of me on this-- the little man and the big man. I listen to the big man. Sometimes the little man sceams pretty loud(hurt her, divorce her, cheat, lie, set her up and knock her down, ect. I think you get the drift)
but what does yours say? Listen to the big guy, hes right.
Sometimes the right thing isnt the easiest thing to do, I think personally I owe my son for her to have a second chance. Thats the bottom line for me, whats best for my son.

demoralized

01-16-2009, 01:12 PM

This is the first time she has done this. Well that's what she says, and for what it is worth I believe her, so no it isn't the second time. I have made it very clear to her, no third chance, EVER!

She says things like..."I know I have destroyed our sacred bond, and our specialness, and I am going to spend the rest of my life making it up to you."

Like you, I feel like I owe it to my son to give her a second chance, and fortunately, or unfortunately, however you want to look at it, my christian values tell me to try to forgive her and move forward, because she deserves a second chance, but as you know it's hard.

We aren't even 3 months past D-day yet so I don't really know. Time will tell right?

Time machine? Yea but I honestly don't know which way I would go, back to try to understand this and prevent it, or forward to see how things will be for us down the road so I could save myself potential heartache in the future.

I can say that if it wasn't for so many of you, Slim, SiS, Skirt, Muffin, Ravage...everyone really, giving me the support and the different perspectives on this, I probably would have gone nuts by now.

Listen to the BIG man, that is the best advice I have gotten yet.

Slim

01-16-2009, 04:02 PM

I think you will be Ok, I am only a month 1/2 in, and its still tough, but its getting better.

StillinShock

01-16-2009, 07:44 PM

mmm Slim...it has only been 3 months for you. I suggest that you wait at least two years before you renew your vows with a cheater. I've had several tell me that they wish they had not "forgiven" so quickly.

For you the vows will mean so much--and in your mind you are thinking that it will "help" her stay faithful. Whether you admit it or not---this is in your mind I would bet-- or at least your subconscious. And the true fact is this: The first vows for her did not mean much. The second vows may or may not mean much.

Anyway, I just remember one lady tell me this: "he really knew what he was doing when he had us repeat our vows to each other---now I feel really tied to him and he has gone on to cheat again".

Just a thought for you---you might want to wait awhile--I don't know. Let her repeat her vows to you for now. She is the one that broke them. Yours are still out there. Tell her that she needs to renew her vows--you might renew yours later

Sometimes I struggle with the vows to "love and honor for the rest of my life" and "in sickness and in health" because my H is sick--call it a sexual addiction or mental illness--but he is truly sick and disturbed. If I should divorce him I believe, however, that the marriage would be annulled in my church because he wasn't able to see marriage as a faithful bond and thus was not capable of entering into matrimony. I was the only one that thought I was married. (He never wore his ring for example). I will try not to "destroy" him as I made a vow to honor him---and I know that I will always love him. But, in spite of 30 years of happiness, I am not safe with him--and he is not treating this as a marriage--I'm afraid he loves me like a mother dispite his protest that it isn't true.

What a mess.

demoralized

01-20-2009, 04:12 PM

StillinShock

01-20-2009, 07:13 PM

Yeah the vows......wow, stings like hell. You honor them, they don't.

Does anybody else that is still with the cheating spouse fell like they are being "settled for"?

Like, well this isn't who I really want but, the other just can't happen, and I owe it to the betrayed spouse so, I'll buck up and do "what's right, even thought it's not what or who I really want"

This is one of the things that stick with me---I told my H "Let me get this straight--all these years you left me to go out and sneak around and cheat but NOW you've decided that you want only me? And what exactly brought that change other than my finding out? How in the world could I be as 'exciting' as the thrill of sneaking around and the thrill of different women?......As I write this I realize again and again that there is no future---all the little things that he did while he was cheating--like walking off without me, not calling, letting me sit at home and wait for him because he was "working", letting me do all the work with the children while he ran around----

Yeah, he would be "settling" and probably not for long again---

Slim

01-21-2009, 08:45 AM

I am waiting for about another year before I do this. I had her sit with me and we bot recited our vows, and we had a lot of tears, looking at pictures and stuff. She doesnt know that we are to remarry, yet. But I feel like its nessesary to do so I can close the book on it. It will be one of the last steps. She has asked me to remarry, and I said not right now. I will surprise her in a few months and then we can set a date for it. Good luck to you, Demo. I also have had some wemon who heard the news and want me. However I want my wife, and I feel entitled to what I want.

demoralized

01-23-2009, 07:23 AM

UPDATE......

Had MC, and the C is doing excellent with us. Really focusing on her issues, asking very tough questions. She got to the point where she is now understanding that the things she cited about me, were simply untrue, excuses.

She was gaslighting herself, not wanting to recognize the internal character that allowed her to cheat. At one point the C asked her, was it really (demo) that you were unhappy with? These things that you talked about, are they things that you really didn't see him doing? Did he really give you a reason to do this, with his actions or in-actions, real or perceived? Is he really doing ANYTHING different now than he has in the past?

W says no, he has been there all along, these are not new things, the caring, the consideration for me, and sharing in the family responsibilities.
He has always done those things.

She faced her demons, she had to. She said.......

I was so miserable with myself, I didn't love myself, so how could he? How could he want to be with me when I didn't want to be with myself?

A lot of tears, me not backing down, forcing the issue that marital disagreements don't cause infidelity.

C lays it on the line and says....there really isn't any problem with him is there? Nothing so bad that you couldn't have talked to him about and worked through together, right?

W pauses, cries, says....now there is, and sobs.

She cried the whole way home, and cried herself to sleep in my arms, repeating over and over....I'm so sorry.

WOW!

I hated to see her in pain because I love her but, It was a huge sense of relief to me to see her come to the understanding that she couldn't handle her feelings, her problems, refused to talk to me about things, and pushed me away. It wasn't the other way around.

holikdad

01-23-2009, 07:48 AM

Nice counselor, usually they're wishy washy and want to point the blame at both parties. You found yourself a good one.

Slim

01-30-2009, 09:15 AM

That is something you both needed, Im the same way- I didnt like the pain either but it feels like it heals you a little, to see that she knows she really f*cked up and cant blame any one else. My w tried to pull the your fault card, to. I reared up and pointed out she wasnt happy with herself and just plain got selfish. She cries and says shes sorry alot. Right now Im at the point where the story is getting old, and Im getting sick of being down.

Ravage

01-30-2009, 07:26 PM

That is AWESOME!!!

A wayward spouse facing their demons and owning their crap is a great step ahead in recovery. Things are looking up keep going!!!

demoralized

02-02-2009, 01:20 PM

Thanks for the encouragement. We had a good weekend, doing some painting, and getting the house, "ready". We have talked about moving, into a place that needs little or no work as our older home is a "constant project".

I am worn out by it, and have been for the last couple of years, but I kept going because I thought it was what she wanted, she says she thought it was what I wanted.

Our communication sucked.

I don't know when we will sell it, maybe not for a couple of years, but maybe sooner.

She has been very attentive, I wonder if it is fake, I wonder if she knows that I think about faking it too.

I honestly don't know from 1 minute to the next if I should stay or leave.

It is so hard to think about these feelings of betrayal and pain lasting forever.

demoralized

02-26-2009, 03:16 PM

So yea, it's been a while.

I drink, smoke, and listen to loud rock-n-roll.

It makes me feel better.

demoralized

03-02-2009, 07:14 PM

Obviously my last post was in a bit of a drunken stupor. But I am OK, and I see all the new people here hurting, and it makes me so sad. I read the new stories, I think about where I was four months ago, and where I am now. I pray for Skirt and his little boy. I pray for SiS to find some peace, for Muffin to be better, and for everyone here to find a safe place in this life.

Why do they turn our worlds upside down?

They don't know.

Why can't they see that they are broken?

They don't know.

Why didn't they protect us, the way we did them?

They don't know.

Why was it so easy?

They don't know.

Why can't they help us get through our pain?

They don't know.

They don't know what it feels like.

Thank you all that have replied to our story, and PM'd with advice, and letting me know that this isn't mine. I needed to hear that. It helped me push the issue, one on one and in MC.

We have had some great moments the last few weeks.

She cries so much, telling me how sorry she is, how much she loves me, she cries in her sleep. I hate it, but somehow it comforts me that she feels some kind of pain through this. That's not wrong, I don't think.

I THINK we are getting ready to move to a better place, forward, onward. But as so many have pointed out, the road is long, and treacherous, and our journey has just begun.

Her best friend has really been helpful to her, really tough love, really tough. Telling her that she has to see what she has done is terrible, unwarranted, and selfish. BF told her, look, if you want someone else, fine move on, let him move on, if you just don't want him fine, let him move on. He deserves better than you have given him, so much better, and he is waiting for you, waiting for you to own up and just telling him that you will spend the rest of your life making it up to him, is not good enough. If you truly love him and want your marriage to work, then you have to do exactly that. This is fact, I have an auto forward on her email, and I read them all. Neither her or BF know, so I am getting unfiltered correspondence.

Stay strong all, and even though it is hard to think of others during such a traumatic experience, I truly wish all of you the best, in whatever decision you make regarding your futures.

Take care,
Demo

dazed

03-03-2009, 01:36 PM

Demo,
Glad to hear things are looking up. Having her best friend in your corner is great!
Most of the cheating wives get "support" from their friends that helps them to justify thei actions.
DON'T LET YOUR GUARD DOWN AND GET COMFORTABLE!
This is a rollercoaster that never ends, the good & bad times come and go.

There will come a time 6 months or 1 year out when she will expect you to just "be over it" or "stop bringing up the past" This just shows how they truly don't understand the damage done.

Since I found my personal solution, things are better on this front. Now we just argue about raising the kids, or other "normal" husband-wife problems.

demoralized

03-03-2009, 02:15 PM

Thanks Dazed,

May I inquire as to what your personal solution is?

For now, drinking, smoking, not eating or sleeping much, working out, and loud as hell rock-n-roll seem to be the only things that help me cope.

I seriously can't decide if I am currently in the best or worst shape I've ever been in in my life.

I've lost 35 lbs. and could probably model underwear at this point, well from the neck down at least LOL! My friends and family have noticed, her sisters have noticed, her nieces noticed. Some of her friends have noticed, and random women are hitting on me more than ever, right in front of her! The other night we were out with friends, and this fake boobed barbie type, comes over and says hey how are you doing? WTF? Wife was standing right there, I said good thanks, and continued my convo with w and our friends until she finally got the hint and walked away. Still, it did make me feel good, I suppose that's natural.

Anyway, Wife mentions none of it, just says, your so skinny, your jeans are baggy. OM was a big fatass, great, what am I supposed to think about all that?

I am not going to eat myself obese to please some sickness she has to be the smaller person, like oh yea, the wife is supposed to be physically smaller. Don't get me wrong, she is far from overweight. I am 4 inches taller than her, but I don't have double D's or "womanly" hips KWIM?

I was attracted to her for her curves, she is ALL woman, with it all stacked in the right places.

Bottom line, I love her for who she is, inside and out, always have. She felt terrible after the birth of our son, and worked so hard to get that weight off, didn't matter to me one bit. Honest to God, I have never in our 16 years together ever EVER muttered a word about her shape, weight appearance, EVER, other than that I could not get enough of her. Still can't.

Now this, and I am too skinny?

6'1" 160?

Don't get it. Are we just wrong for each other?

dazed

03-03-2009, 02:50 PM

Demo,
The messed up sleep patterns, lack of appetite or over-eating, drinking & smoking more, either not caring about things you used to enjoy or going crazy with them are all signs of clinical depression. (or so I am told)
Been through them all. Self-medicated in so many ways. Tuned out everything.

Got to the point that for months, maybe a year or more, I was just numb. No happiness, no real sadness, just anger, hatred, resentment, and a sense of being taken advantage of and then settled for.
A good friend died, & I felt nothing. I used to enjoy off-roading with my son, now I could take it or leave it.
Completely numb in the brain....

We discussed my personal solution before. I found a F-buddy. It's not for everybody, but for the first time in a couple of years I feel wanted, not settled for and the hellish thoughts & visions are mostly gone. It's nice to have somebody to talk to that doesn't know both of you.
I know it wont last as a long-term solution, but for now I am somewhat at peace. If thoughts of my wife blowing the old man creep back into my mind, they are replaced with similiar visions of my F-buddy.

bchgrl2008

03-04-2009, 11:58 AM

Demo-
To answer the question do I feel like I am being settled for? No, I don't. My husband is lucky to have me in his life at all. I gave him the house to be with his wh0re when I found out. She only lived 2 doors down so they could have had free reighn to do what they wanted. He chose to leave and we left the house vacant. He had the choice to be with her, and he chose to be with me. Do I feel like he pities me? No. We lived apart for almost a year. We were separated and I told him to leave me alone and move on. He didn't want to, and at the time, I didn't either. When the affair first came out, I felt so useless. But now, I know he loves me and wants to be with me, I just don't really feel the same. I have lost respect for him. If you are feeling like your spouse is just in this out of pity, then you deserve better. We all do. Don't ever let them make you feel like your less than who you are. You deserve to feel like the most important person in the world. I know that may feel unrealistic, but you are owed that.

demoralized

03-05-2009, 07:39 AM

Thanks Dazed, and bchgrl, this is hard isn't it? Rahollacoasta!!!

MC pretty much told me I am clinically depressed, she wants me to take some meds, but I don't know, I just don't think they are right for me. No judgment for those who take them, I am certain they help a lot of people, I just have a family history of dependency issues.

I am getting better with everyday, I recall a time in my teens feeling this depressed, and getting through it on my own.

I have come to realize that I am me. My core and soul are mine, for no one to take away from me. I am strong, and my will won't be broken. Weather or not this person and I stay together, I will still be me. I will still be happy. I will still live my life as I have, with honor, loyalty, and code, devoted to myself, and my loved ones. These things are mine, I'll share my life with someone deserving of my greatness, deserving of being a recipient of my heart, the benefits of my talents, and generosity. I refuse to change the person who I am, the person who I love, who I have dedicated my life to become. I will wake each day and embrace the gift of another sunrise, with hope, with joy, and the passion to be who I am, a loving and thoughtful person shining my light on the world.

And Dazed, no worries man, you gotta do whatcha gotta do. If it helps, you it's right for you.

Me, can't do it man. It would be nice in some way, but I would see it for me as compromising my principals as a result of actions of another person, because that person didn't appreciate the value of my principals, thereby letting that person redefine me. Not gonna happen.

Stubborn foolish pride.

Take care,
Demo